...White House "Rump Group" created the Vision...who were they???

On 15 Jan 2007 10:54:47 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Eric Chomko"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

Why the smiley face Thorn? Tommorrow Libby goes on trial and said GOP
and MIC cronies will be under the microscope. With the Dems in Congress
now don't expect any soft treatment. Just because his daddy's name is
on the CIA buidling doesn't mean his administration has full access to
the agency. Some heads are going to roll when Libby sings. I hope that
in the very least Cheney gives up the roll list of the Energy Task
Force he had secret meetings with when he was getting his instructions
to invade Iraq.

Eric, no one here is interested in your lunatic fantasies.

Jonathan wrote:
"Brian Thorn" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 11:33:09 -0600, kT wrote:


You neocon pseudo fascists all think the same.

I'm stuck in the middle of an ice-storm today. I needed a laugh.
Thanks!


I'm astonished that anyone here actually believes that
President Bush's motivation is to save the world from
an asteroid or other calamity by building colonies.

This is a huge program designed to maintain
our aerospace capabilities for future military
needs, as they arise. This is a gigantic make-work
program for the military industrial contractors.

Unfortunately, to a degree, so was Apollo.


If you think Bush and Cheney are moved by
visions of grandiose space colonies that
usher in a trekkian utopia....you need to
aquaint yourself with this concept


Again, despite that Bush/Cheney making their claim, you are right,
there is a military aspect to it. Again, so was Apollo. But since
Apollo was good despite the Cold War ramifications, we need to
implement Bush's plan as a science venture, sell it to those hardliners
as military and do it the way we (scientists) want to do it.

I see no other choice. Face it, you WANT VSE, but just not has a
military contract like the war. Fine, let's do with it what was done
with Apollo and make everyone, except the flat earthers and regressive
fundies, happy.

Main Entry: na·ive
1 : marked by unaffected simplicity : ARTLESS, INGENUOUS
2 a : deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment;


The first thing Bush did was to establish this
commission, staffed by the aerospace insiders
such as the CEO of Lockheed etc. Then came
the commissions on moon and mars and
finally the vision. It's no coincidence the commission
on implementing the Vision ran the weapons acquisition
office for the Defense Dept. The industry wanted a
new program to keep them happily afloat
and the Vision is what they got.

But they won't be able to make 100% military.

We get nothing, at least they could've come
up with a military industrial welfare program that
also benefited society. But then they'd have
to actually accomplish something, produce
a product that mattered to us. With the Vision they
don't have to create anything new or valuable
for society, just repeat what's been done before.
And watch society go ho-hum-been-there-done-that
-who-cares. Which is just fine with them.

As they don't care what we think about it.

Commission on the Future of the United States Aerospace Industry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commiss...space_Industry

Here is their final report
http://www.ita.doc.gov/td/aerospace/...inalReport.pdf

Read it, how many times is defense used in this report?
Answer: 270 times

How many times is the word colony used?

Answer: 1



Use their money and make it the way we want, like Apollo.

Eric




Brian

Rand Simberg wrote:
On 15 Jan 2007 10:54:47 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Eric Chomko"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

Why the smiley face Thorn? Tommorrow Libby goes on trial and said GOP
and MIC cronies will be under the microscope. With the Dems in Congress
now don't expect any soft treatment. Just because his daddy's name is
on the CIA buidling doesn't mean his administration has full access to
the agency. Some heads are going to roll when Libby sings. I hope that
in the very least Cheney gives up the roll list of the Energy Task
Force he had secret meetings with when he was getting his instructions
to invade Iraq.

Eric, no one here is interested in your lunatic fantasies.

Rand, why not just admit that you didn't know the Libby trial starts
tomorrow and spare the ad hominem? That's right, when you have nothing
else, ad hominem is all you have.

Eric

On 15 Jan 2007 11:16:24 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Eric Chomko"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:


Rand Simberg wrote:
On 15 Jan 2007 10:54:47 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Eric Chomko"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

Why the smiley face Thorn? Tommorrow Libby goes on trial and said GOP
and MIC cronies will be under the microscope. With the Dems in Congress
now don't expect any soft treatment. Just because his daddy's name is
on the CIA buidling doesn't mean his administration has full access to
the agency. Some heads are going to roll when Libby sings. I hope that
in the very least Cheney gives up the roll list of the Energy Task
Force he had secret meetings with when he was getting his instructions
to invade Iraq.

Eric, no one here is interested in your lunatic fantasies.

Rand, why not just admit that you didn't know the Libby trial starts
tomorrow and spare the ad hominem?

No one is disputing that the Libby trial starts tomorrow. you moron.
You managed to get five words right in your nutty rant. The rest of
it is fruit loops (hint: Libby is not going to "sing" because he has
nothing to "sing" about)..

Jonathan wrote:

We all know President Bush announced his Vision for
Space Exploration in early 2004. My question is who
came up with the idea? What was the pre-history of the
Vision that intends to guide our national space policy for
the next forty years or more?

I think it was Michael Griffin and Paul Spudis. There indeed were some
shifty back room dealings going on back then, somebody wrote it up once.

Aerospaceplane - I hope it wasn't me (DOA)
ISS - Reagan '84 (8 billion and 8 years)
SEI (Moon Mars) - Bush (DOA)
SSTO (X-vehicles) - Clinton
OSP - (Orbital Space Plane) good question (DOA)
SLI - I'll take credit for that (killed by Bush)
VSE - Bush '04
ESAS - Griffin

One word : SSME. You can quote me on that.

--
The Tsiolkovsky Group : http://www.lifeform.org

My Planetary BLOB : http://cosmic.lifeform.org

Get A Free Orbiter Space Flight Simulator :

http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/orbit.html

We all know President Bush announced his Vision for
Space Exploration in early 2004. My question is who
came up with the idea? What was the pre-history of the
Vision that intends to guide our national space policy for
the next forty years or more?

All I have found so far follows...

"Surprisingly, much of the early work on the new policy was
made by a group of anonymous junior White House staffers
who, by the book's account, had a genuine interest in space
exploration and sought to create a new vision that would
reinvigorate the space agency. This "Splinter Group" spent
months meeting informally, reviewing white papers and
proposals, before inviting more senior advisers and, eventually,
NASA officials into the discussion. This led to the creation
of two "Rump Groups" that narrowed down proposals for a new
exploration plan, keeping in mind fiscal limitations that ruled out
any plan that required significant additional funding for NASA.
The result of these deliberations, spread out over most of
2003, was a plan the President approved on December 19
and announced to the world at NASA Headquarters
on January 14."
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/198/1


I would like to know who the ..."anonymous junior staffers"
of the 'Splinter Group' were. Who were the Nasa officials?
Who were the members of the 'Rump Group'?

Who put this idea into the head of our President?

I think we have a right to know, at the very least
we should know so we can gauge their competence
and independence of such entities as Lockheed etc.

Secrets are kept for a reason, generally bad reasons.
If the people here and at Nasa tend to defer to
authority, instead of thinking for themselves, we
should know who those authority figures are.


Jonathan


s

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:04:02 GMT, h (Rand
Simberg) wrote:

Why the smiley face Thorn? Tommorrow Libby goes on trial and said GOP
and MIC cronies will be under the microscope. With the Dems in Congress
now don't expect any soft treatment. Just because his daddy's name is
on the CIA buidling doesn't mean his administration has full access to
the agency. Some heads are going to roll when Libby sings. I hope that
in the very least Cheney gives up the roll list of the Energy Task
Force he had secret meetings with when he was getting his instructions
to invade Iraq.

Eric, no one here is interested in your lunatic fantasies.

Damn, I killfiled Chomko long ago... now that I see he's aligning
himself with conspiracy loons like KT and Jonathan, I'm certain I made
the right decision...

Morons of a feather, and all that...

"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Jonathan wrote:
:
: I'm astonished that anyone here actually believes that
: President Bush's motivation is to save the world from
: an asteroid or other calamity by building colonies.
:
: This is a huge program designed to maintain
: our aerospace capabilities for future military
: needs, as they arise. This is a gigantic make-work
: program for the military industrial contractors.
:
:Unfortunately, to a degree, so was Apollo.

Wee what I mean? Loon to loon communication.

:
: If you think Bush and Cheney are moved by
: visions of grandiose space colonies that
: usher in a trekkian utopia....you need to
: aquaint yourself with this concept
:
:
:Again, despite that Bush/Cheney making their claim, you are right,
:there is a military aspect to it.

Oh? What military aspect would that be?

:Again, so was Apollo.

Oh? What military aspect would that be?

:
: We get nothing, at least they could've come
: up with a military industrial welfare program that
: also benefited society. But then they'd have
: to actually accomplish something, produce
: a product that mattered to us. With the Vision they
: don't have to create anything new or valuable
: for society, just repeat what's been done before.
: And watch society go ho-hum-been-there-done-that
: -who-cares. Which is just fine with them.
:
: As they don't care what we think about it.

That's because you're certifiable.

:
:Use their money and make it the way we want, like Apollo.
:

Whose money do you think you're getting to use, Eric?

Oh, and you calling yourself a 'scientist' is absolute
misrepresentation.

--
"I'll learn to work the saxophone.
I'll play just what I feel.
Drink Scotch whisky all night long
And die behind the wheel."
-- "Deacon Blues", Steely Dan

"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Rand Simberg wrote:
: On 15 Jan 2007 10:54:47 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Eric Chomko"
: made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
: a way as to indicate that:
:
: Why the smiley face Thorn? Tommorrow Libby goes on trial and said GOP
: and MIC cronies will be under the microscope. With the Dems in Congress
: now don't expect any soft treatment. Just because his daddy's name is
: on the CIA buidling doesn't mean his administration has full access to
: the agency. Some heads are going to roll when Libby sings. I hope that
: in the very least Cheney gives up the roll list of the Energy Task
: Force he had secret meetings with when he was getting his instructions
: to invade Iraq.
:
: Eric, no one here is interested in your lunatic fantasies.
:
:Rand, why not just admit that you didn't know the Libby trial starts
:tomorrow and spare the ad hominem? That's right, when you have nothing
:else, ad hominem is all you have.

Eric, please do us all a favor and hold your breath without posting to
Usenet until your insane fantasy above comes to pass.

Actually, I really do wish the bulk of the Democrats were as stupid as
you are (rather than just some of them). It would guarantee a
Republican Administration and Congress in a couple of years.

--
"Before you embark on a journey of revenge dig two graves."

-- Confucius

Fred J. McCall wrote:
Morons of a feather, and all that...

Top posting, Freddy? How desperate are you?


"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Jonathan wrote:
:
: I'm astonished that anyone here actually believes that
: President Bush's motivation is to save the world from
: an asteroid or other calamity by building colonies.
:
: This is a huge program designed to maintain
: our aerospace capabilities for future military
: needs, as they arise. This is a gigantic make-work
: program for the military industrial contractors.
:
:Unfortunately, to a degree, so was Apollo.

Wee what I mean? Loon to loon communication.

So there was no aspect of "beat the Russians" -space race- WRT to
Apollo? Freddy, surely you haven't gone brain-dead?

:
: If you think Bush and Cheney are moved by
: visions of grandiose space colonies that
: usher in a trekkian utopia....you need to
: aquaint yourself with this concept
:
:
:Again, despite that Bush/Cheney making their claim, you are right,
:there is a military aspect to it.

Oh? What military aspect would that be?

Going back to the moon to set up the first lunar base? Are you mad?

:Again, so was Apollo.

Oh? What military aspect would that be?

Having the first lunar landing is the de facto military superiority in
space. Freddy, did you miss the memo?

:
: We get nothing, at least they could've come
: up with a military industrial welfare program that
: also benefited society. But then they'd have
: to actually accomplish something, produce
: a product that mattered to us. With the Vision they
: don't have to create anything new or valuable
: for society, just repeat what's been done before.
: And watch society go ho-hum-been-there-done-that
: -who-cares. Which is just fine with them.
:
: As they don't care what we think about it.

That's because you're certifiable.

Be clear on who you are posting to, as you claim to have a
certification to being sane and stable.


:
:Use their money and make it the way we want, like Apollo.
:

Whose money do you think you're getting to use, Eric?

DOD and NASA along with NSF and others. Do you want to go to Mars or
not?

Oh, and you calling yourself a 'scientist' is absolute
misrepresentation.

No Freddy, sorry to burst your bubble. Your taken math and econ degrees
vs. my earned CompSci degrees beg to differ. I'l stand toe-to-toe with
you on any subject and have. You have no inherent superiority here,
never have.

Eric

P.S. Come to MD. Look me up. I will take take you to places in the
Smithsonian and DC in general you have never seen. Further, when done,
we will raise a glass and you will come back to this board touting me
as a friend and take back well over 50% of what you have stated about
me. That is a promise not a threat.

--
"I'll learn to work the saxophone.
I'll play just what I feel.
Drink Scotch whisky all night long
And die behind the wheel."
-- "Deacon Blues", Steely Dan