End futile search

On 28 Jan 2004 21:19:59 GMT, (G EddieA95) wrote:

Why do I have a feeling that it is YOU and not these philosophers who
believe that we are "commonplace and pathetic"? After all you said it
above, where now you say that we are only worthy of pets or target
practice.

I didn't say that we are "worthy" of that. Rather, based upon the history of
Eurocentric colonisation, that seems to be what animal-evolved, technological
races might likely *do* to their technological inferiors. The Indians, etc,
were not "worthy" of extermination, but that is what happened.

Well, you can always hope that they have grown out of conquest these
days, but maybe that was more along the line of colonization.

I am sure that we would have something to trade with aliens even if it
was just "shiny beads" or their own version of "tentacle sex".

I doubt that interspecies sex would be desirable at all to either side.

You have to try everything at least once in your life. ;-]

I think that it more depends on if your sexually compatible, where
there may be some give or take with other sizeable holes or additional
pointy bits.

Thinking about it, then it depends on the species I guess, when ones
that look like a walking turds oozing a green and very smelly slime
tends not to be a viable option.

Still, drive up to some hookers with your new alien friend and see if
one of them would nail your buddy. As you can just dress him in a
track suit and smother him with aftershave. Well you never know, all
those drugs and alcohol, but they would have quite a surprise when
they roll over in the morning. ;-]

As I
mean all the stuff that is on our planet, then there certainly must be
something.

That "stuff" is being rapidly exhausted.

We have lots of that left still, but just because that is valuable to
us, does not mean that it is valuable to alien visitors.

What they would most want I guess is something that is valuable in
their society due to short supply. Hopefully that does not include
fresh meat in order to feed their trillions.

Still, entertainment is also an option, when they may like our music
or art, or even a child's toy.

Let's hope we have ships plumbing the rest of Sol system before the
aliens come.

And even then the aliens will be vastly more advanced.

Cardman
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk

Hop David wrote:

If there are aliens out there we'd meet them soon enough once we
started spreading across the galaxy. And that's when all the culture
clash problems would begin, and the squabbles and wars about resources
and ethnic differences...


You mention some nightmares from history that could well repeat
themselves. But history has also shown us great explosions of creativity
from meetings of cultures.

yes. but only in rather specific circumstances, and these can be considered
to have been rare. The nightmares aren't/weren't really only specific to
western clonisation, it happened thousands of similar ways all over the planet
during the past several millenia.


Much of our cultures have music and images. If we meet a race with
either eyes or ears it would be a whole new universe of culture to
explore. We could trade them M.C. Escher and Leonardo DaVinci for
Xlorgon and Miloskongi.

(If they perceive different ranges, our music or colors could be transposed)

It doesn't have to be all bad.


No. And even if it starts bad it doesn't need to end like that, its just that
a lot is at risk. One could say that *everything* is at risk.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:13:18 +0100, "Dr. O" dr.o@xxxxx wrote:


"William Elliot" wrote in message
...
The heck with this futile search for Martians. Let's send some
bacteria or algae that'll survive to become the first Martians.

I'll second that!!!

And when they exterminate the native Martian bacteria? You sound like
someone who thinks it was a good idea to ethnically exterminate the
native American indians.

"Christopher" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:13:18 +0100, "Dr. O" dr.o@xxxxx wrote:


"William Elliot" wrote in message
...
The heck with this futile search for Martians. Let's send some
bacteria or algae that'll survive to become the first Martians.

I'll second that!!!

And when they exterminate the native Martian bacteria? You sound like
someone who thinks it was a good idea to ethnically exterminate the
native American indians.


Umm, first of all, WHAT NATIVE Martion bacteria?

"Sander Vesik" wrote in message ...
Hop David wrote:

If there are aliens out there we'd meet them soon enough once we
started spreading across the galaxy. And that's when all the culture
clash problems would begin, and the squabbles and wars about resources
and ethnic differences...

You mention some nightmares from history that could well repeat
themselves. But history has also shown us great explosions of creativity
from meetings of cultures.

yes. but only in rather specific circumstances, and these can be considered
to have been rare. The nightmares aren't/weren't really only specific to
western clonisation, it happened thousands of similar ways all over the planet
during the past several millenia.

Those instances, rare though they may be, were however also the most
significant ones. Think of the first single-celled organisms invent-
ing sex--mixing and matching their DNA so that independent mutations
that had already proven to give the organism an edge in survival had a
chance of combining and form something superior that pure chance would
have needed thousands of years to produce otherwise...

Think what kind of a weirdo the first ape must have been who decided
to feel a maternal instinct towards a few wolf puppies and feed them
rather than eat them--only to find an ally in the hunt rather than a
competitor occupying a similar niche.


Much of our cultures have music and images. If we meet a race with
either eyes or ears it would be a whole new universe of culture to
explore. We could trade them M.C. Escher and Leonardo DaVinci for
Xlorgon and Miloskongi.

(If they perceive different ranges, our music or colors could be transposed)

It doesn't have to be all bad.

No. And even if it starts bad it doesn't need to end like that, its just that
a lot is at risk. One could say that *everything* is at risk.

Yeah, because the hopeful events above are very rare, require very
specific circumstances to occur, and even more specific ones to turn
out advantageous in the end. Usually if you meet another species
you're either its food or its hunter or its competitor or you don't
give a damn about each other...


--
__ “A good leader knows when it’s best to ignore the __
('__` screams for help and focus on the bigger picture.� '__`)
//6(6; ©OOL mmiv :^)^\\
`\_-/ http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich....lmann/redbaron \-_/'

In article ,
(Christopher) wrote:

And when they exterminate the native Martian bacteria? You sound like
someone who thinks it was a good idea to ethnically exterminate the
native American indians.

And you sound like someone who thinks that native American indians are
comparable to bacteria.

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Joseph J. Strout Check out the Mac Web Directory: |
| http://www.macwebdir.com |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'

Ool wrote:
"Sander Vesik" wrote in message ...
Hop David wrote:

If there are aliens out there we'd meet them soon enough once we
started spreading across the galaxy. And that's when all the culture
clash problems would begin, and the squabbles and wars about resources
and ethnic differences...

You mention some nightmares from history that could well repeat
themselves. But history has also shown us great explosions of creativity
from meetings of cultures.

yes. but only in rather specific circumstances, and these can be considered
to have been rare. The nightmares aren't/weren't really only specific to
western clonisation, it happened thousands of similar ways all over the planet
during the past several millenia.

Those instances, rare though they may be, were however also the most
significant ones. Think of the first single-celled organisms invent-
ing sex--mixing and matching their DNA so that independent mutations
that had already proven to give the organism an edge in survival had a
chance of combining and form something superior that pure chance would
have needed thousands of years to produce otherwise...

I think you have mixed up "millenia" and "millions of years". A millenium
is rather much shorter period of time.


Think what kind of a weirdo the first ape must have been who decided
to feel a maternal instinct towards a few wolf puppies and feed them
rather than eat them--only to find an ally in the hunt rather than a
competitor occupying a similar niche.


Ape? Domesticating dogs was done by basicly modern humans and far less
time ago than you seem to think.


--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Cardman wrote:
On 28 Jan 2004 21:19:59 GMT, (G EddieA95) wrote:

Why do I have a feeling that it is YOU and not these philosophers who
believe that we are "commonplace and pathetic"? After all you said it
above, where now you say that we are only worthy of pets or target
practice.

I didn't say that we are "worthy" of that. Rather, based upon the history of
Eurocentric colonisation, that seems to be what animal-evolved, technological
races might likely *do* to their technological inferiors. The Indians, etc,
were not "worthy" of extermination, but that is what happened.

Well, you can always hope that they have grown out of conquest these
days, but maybe that was more along the line of colonization.

Want to bet the first aliens to arrive will be a ship of benevolent benefactors
and not a Klingon Bird of Prey? I'd much rather we were a bit more advanced
than right now.

And ven if they are benevolent benefactors, how do you know the end result of the
technology they offer is good for humans and human society?


I am sure that we would have something to trade with aliens even if it
was just "shiny beads" or their own version of "tentacle sex".

I doubt that interspecies sex would be desirable at all to either side.

You have to try everything at least once in your life. ;-]

I think that it more depends on if your sexually compatible, where
there may be some give or take with other sizeable holes or additional
pointy bits.

compatible? Its more of a question of how long it would take to even comprehend
teh beginning of what the other species does or has. Aliens need not in any way
resemble anything comprehensible to humans and are unlikely to voluntarily
let humans vivisect themselves etc.

[snip]

Let's hope we have ships plumbing the rest of Sol system before the
aliens come.

And even then the aliens will be vastly more advanced.

There is only one way to do something about that.


Cardman
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

And ven if they are benevolent benefactors, how do you know the end result of
the
technology they offer is good for humans and human society?

I really doubt that any alien ould "offer" us their technology. We have
nothing to offer in exchange. Natural, biological etc., resources of Earth can
be had by the aliens, without our intermediation at all.

A "benevolent benefactor" race would be the end of human society as we know it,
anyway. At the very least, they would separate and disarm human societies and
place us under a "protectorate" that amounted to pethood.

Andcompatible? Its more of a question of how long it would take to even
comprehend
teh beginning of what the other species does or has.

Sex requires a minimum of biological attraction, which does not exist between
species. You don't see humans and dolphins, etc., getting it on, and aliens
are certain to be far more strange to us, and we to them.

On 29 Jan 2004 19:38:58 GMT, (G EddieA95) wrote:

And ven if they are benevolent benefactors, how do you know the end result of
the
technology they offer is good for humans and human society?

I really doubt that any alien ould "offer" us their technology. We have
nothing to offer in exchange. Natural, biological etc.,

There is under selling our value again...

It is just a matter of finding out what customer X wants, where
customer X like any other customer could be a sucker for advertising.

Saying that we have nothing to offer equals that we can provide no
level of intellectual interest for such an alien. All you have to do
in order to make a sale is to understand your customer.

resources of Earth can be had by the aliens, without our intermediation
at all.

That sounds like judging them by our values, when for all we know such
hostile theft is not even part of their being.

A "benevolent benefactor" race would be the end of human society as we know it,
anyway. At the very least, they would separate and disarm human societies and
place us under a "protectorate" that amounted to pethood.

They are more likely to leave you alone, where you are just too much
of a problem to have to deal with.

Sex requires a minimum of biological attraction,

Not so, when it just requires feeling horny and finding some method to
satisfy that sexual desire.

If biological attraction was an important factor, then there would be
no sex toys or doing very odd sexual things.

which does not exist between species.

That is not always the case.

I would say that my furthest out sexual attraction was concerning the
movie "galaxy quest", where I thought that one of those female aliens
had a very nice colour to her tentacles.

Still, maybe I am too corrupted after seeing too many attractive
aliens on Star Trek: Enterprise.

You don't see humans and dolphins, etc., getting it on,

Well there was a couple of newspaper reports on that very subject, but
bestiality is a part of some people's sexuality.

and aliens are certain to be far more strange to us, and we to them.

Call it getting to know their inner beauty. :-]

Cardman
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk