WTF?!?

"Kevin" wrote in message
om...

Now let's assume that our diver gets to the beach with his SAM or
high-tech
rifle - the shuttle on pad is *several* miles (at least 8-10 km) away from
the closest beach.

While I agree with most of what you say, I am not sure I agree with this
statement. From aerial photographs of the launch pads that I have seen,
they appear to be closer than 8-10km away from the beach.

Anyone else got an opinion on this?


JD

Andrew Gray wrote:

O



I can assure you that using train schedules to let the terrorists know
when to plant bombs in London would be ineffective. Set the delay timer
to go off when you reach Kings Cross, all you'd do would be scare the
**** out of Lincolnshire...



And you know what that shows? God is on our side and on the side of
democracy! We all know that only dictators can make the trains run on
time! ;-)

Pat

"Joe Delphi" wrote in message
news:wYxAe.28479$Qo.22909@fed1read01...

"Kevin" wrote in message
om...

Now let's assume that our diver gets to the beach with his SAM or
high-tech
rifle - the shuttle on pad is *several* miles (at least 8-10 km) away
from
the closest beach.

While I agree with most of what you say, I am not sure I agree with this
statement. From aerial photographs of the launch pads that I have seen,
they appear to be closer than 8-10km away from the beach.

Anyone else got an opinion on this?


JD


Finally managed to locate a map with *some* kind of scale on it for the pads
(http://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/PDF/KSCEdGuide6-8.pdf) - and you're
right - 39A and B *are* pretty close to the beach - however 'tis definitely
a beach that you won't be able to get to (post 9/11) anytime there's a bird
on the pad. However, about 8km is about as close as you can get without
being on KSC or CCAS property. Guess it's been too long since I've surfed
Playalinda.

-K

Joe Delphi wrote:

While I agree with most of what you say, I am not sure I agree with this
statement. From aerial photographs of the launch pads that I have seen,
they appear to be closer than 8-10km away from the beach.

Anyone else got an opinion on this?



I dug up the map of the place in "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Space
Technology".
Launch Complex 39A is about .6 km from the seashore, LC 39B is about 1
km away.

Pat

Kevin wrote:

Now let's assume that our diver gets to the beach with his SAM or high-tech
rifle



In the movie he never went up on the beach; he inflated a float and used
it to stabilize his arms as he aimed a high-powered rifle at the the
rocket (Saturn I? Saturn V? It's been a long time since I saw it.) from
a ways offshore- but he got picked off by a security helicopter before
he could fire.
There was a funny coincidence between the movie and real life- one of
the key points in the movie is that the People's Republic of China
wasn't a member of the U.N. (they have to defuse a PRC orbiting nuclear
weapon launcher in the movie- shades of "Space Cowboys") but between the
time the movie was made and when it was broadcast the PRC was recognized
as the official government of China by the U.N..
"Earth 2" (I checked- it's Earth 2, not II) appeared to be a pilot for a
never-made TV series.
The space technology they showed was quite reasonable for the time
period shown in the movie.

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:

ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the word "safe" that I was
previously unaware of...



Well, the mission commander thinks it's safe:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...eadlines-space

At least for this flight...although I don't know how I'd react if
someone asked me "Do you think this will be your last mission?"
I think Jose Jimenez would probably say "Oh, I sure hope not". :-)

g

the sad thing is, if Eileen did that line in character, she's get
slammed by the press for being politically incorrect.


--
Terrell Miller


"Well I'm a wetback now"

You made some sound points, but careful. A distance measuring tool on
my electronic map (Microsoft Streets and Trips) shows the distance from
Pad 39A to the beach to be only 0.46 miles (OK so lets say half a mile
(3/4 of a kilometer) and get would up into an accuracy arguement). Pad
39B appears to be just a few feet further inland from the beach's
closet point of approach.

Otherwise, I agree, our bad-guy swimmer would still have a diificult
time doing evil. It is not impossible . . . but probably very very
difficult.

Blue skies to you all

John

John wrote:
You made some sound points, but careful. A distance measuring tool on
my electronic map (Microsoft Streets and Trips) shows the distance from
Pad 39A to the beach to be only 0.46 miles (OK so lets say half a mile
(3/4 of a kilometer) and get would up into an accuracy arguement). Pad
39B appears to be just a few feet further inland from the beach's
closet point of approach.

Otherwise, I agree, our bad-guy swimmer would still have a diificult
time doing evil. It is not impossible . . . but probably very very
difficult.

Even if he gets within range, he's going to have
to pop above the surface at some point (unless he
has a magic underwater-launched missile). If he
does, pop up I mean, there is, I suspect, a very
good chance that he would be dead before he could
take aim. Based on some of the publically visible
security provisions that I glimpsed during a recent
tour at KSC, I think it would be naive to assume
that there won't be some kind of constant counter-
sniper security on the beach, near the beach, under
the beach, and under the waves, not to mention in
the Mosquito Lagoon, on the land, etc.. You can
bet they've thought of this one.

- Ed Kyle

"Ed Kyle" wrote in news:1121190265.123465.309380
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:


Even if he gets within range, he's going to have
to pop above the surface at some point (unless he
has a magic underwater-launched missile). If he
does, pop up I mean, there is, I suspect, a very
good chance that he would be dead before he could
take aim. Based on some of the publically visible

I remember the water off the beaches in that area as being pretty clear --
maybe Kim Keller or Tim K. can comment on whether that's the case.

Since they're patrolling along the coastline in choppers, a diver in the
water close enough to shore to make a difference might be visible long
before he emerges from the water (at least for a daylight launch).

--
I was punching a text message into my | Reed Snellenberger
phone yesterday and thought, "they need | GPG KeyID: 5A978843
to make a phone that you can just talk | rsnellenberger
into." Major Thomb | -at-houston.rr.com

Ed Kyle wrote:
has a magic underwater-launched missile). If he
does, pop up I mean, there is, I suspect, a very
good chance that he would be dead before he could
take aim.

Not necessarily, with waves, his head/gear might be hidden from the point of
view of the guards on the beach.

Also, if he has some heat seeking (or in the case of the shuttle, would it be
cold seeking ?) rocket, he wouldn't have to aim that precicely. Also, in
terms of him being shot, the whole "deterrant" thing of having a gazillion
guards ready to shoot the terrorist is pointless when the terrorists do this
to be killed and go to heaven with a 1000 females to take care of him (or
whatever they've been brainwashed with).

Another aspect: the area is patrolled/secured many days before launch.

So either the guys goes in before the security perimeter is tightened, with
enough air and liquid food to last a few days underwater until launch
hopefully undetected, (very unlikely) or the guy dives from outside of
perimeter and uses a small properller and/or sub to get through the security
and close enough to beach undetected. But to haul all of that would require a
fair size motor which would likely be detected by sonar of the patrolling ships.



Big question, which I suspect will remain unanswered, but must be asked
anyways is whether the beach nearest to the pad is safe enough to have guards
there minutes before launch, or whether all humans must be evacuated, or if
there are bunkers where guards can stay during launch and still monitor the
waters/beach area.

By setting up the security perimeter that is quite large days before launch,
it gives a good chance to cleaup the area from any hidden surprises, and makes
it very hard for someone to stay underwater for that long. I don't think that
even James Bond ever stayed underwater for 2 weeks in scuba gear.