SpaceX Upgrades

I haven't seen it posted here yet, so..

HobbySpace apparently got early access to the SpaceX
next bimonthly status update. Among other things,
Falcon V has been modified, and now has a single
Merlin engine instead of the two Kestrel pressure
fed engines on the second stage. Payload masses
have significantly increased:

Orbit Payload(new) Payload(old)
----- ------------ ------------
200km 28.5 deg 6020 kg 4200 kg
400km 51 deg 5450 kg 3570 kg
700 km sunsync 4780 kg 3000 kg
GTO 9 deg 1920 kg 1250 kg
Escape Vel 1200 kg 840 kg

This is a significant boost to the payload,
apparently with little or no cost increase.

Credit to Jon Goff who pointed out the HobbySpace
article to me.


-george william herbert

I'll have to ask Musk this at the next conference where I bump into him. He's
clearly a rocket history buff, but I wonder if he knows that his engines,
Merlin and Kestrel, in addition to being types of falcon, are names of
important Rolls-Royce aircraft engines from WWII (the Kestrel was the
predecessor to the more famous Merlin.)


Matt Bille
)
OPINIONS IN ALL POSTS ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE AUTHOR

(MattWriter) wrote in message ...
I'll have to ask Musk this at the next conference where I bump into him. He's
clearly a rocket history buff, but I wonder if he knows that his engines,
Merlin and Kestrel, in addition to being types of falcon, are names of
important Rolls-Royce aircraft engines from WWII (the Kestrel was the
predecessor to the more famous Merlin.)


Especially since this is such as massive improvement. Why didn't they
have the right engine in in the first place.

(Alex Terrell) wrote in message om...
(MattWriter) wrote in message ...
I'll have to ask Musk this at the next conference where I bump into him. He's
clearly a rocket history buff, but I wonder if he knows that his engines,
Merlin and Kestrel, in addition to being types of falcon, are names of
important Rolls-Royce aircraft engines from WWII (the Kestrel was the
predecessor to the more famous Merlin.)


Especially since this is such as massive improvement. Why didn't they
have the right engine in in the first place.

Kestrel is a lot simpler than Merlin, being pressure fed, vice pumped,
and their initial analyses had the extra tankage weight issues coming
in secondary to Kestrel's simplicity, reliability and cost.

Since then, a Kestrel stage's weight has grown. The lower thrust
Kestrel has available has therefore demanded a more powerful motor
regardless of the extra cost. (Better to lose money on the upper stage
and have satisfied customers than to have a cheap upperstage with too
small a payload and no customers.) In addition, of greater importance
than cost to Musk is that he needs to rapidly build the market and
cutomers. A more expensive upper stage would be a loss-leader in that
regard--immediately losing money but allowing the long-term financing
of bigger and better things.

Anyway, I jsut finished reading Stiennon & Hoerr's The Rocket Company:
http://www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/arc...titlePage.html
on HobbySpace. The weird thing is, every time Musk announces a major
change to Falcon V, it ends up being some component that looks like it
fits ever closer into a reusable vehicle 'a la AM&M's orbital TSTO
reusable.
Anybody else notice the same thing? Maybe Falcon X won't be fully
expendable....

Tom Merkle

On 2004-10-08, George William Herbert wrote:

Orbit Payload(new) Payload(old)
----- ------------ ------------
200km 28.5 deg 6020 kg 4200 kg
400km 51 deg 5450 kg 3570 kg
700 km sunsync 4780 kg 3000 kg
GTO 9 deg 1920 kg 1250 kg
Escape Vel 1200 kg 840 kg

This is a significant boost to the payload,
apparently with little or no cost increase.

I'll say, thats almost a 50% increase in payload. It also
puts it within 600-700 kg of a Delta IV Medium, according to
the D4M specs at:

http://www.spaceandtech.com/spacedat...a4_specs.shtml

The same site prices the D4M at $70 million vs the $12 million
for the Falcon V.

I wonder how much further development could be done with the
Falcon Line. I seem to remember SpaceX talking about further
developments post the Falcon V.


Iain.

EELV costs are rising fast - so fast that the Air Force now expects to
pay $138 million for a Medium and up to $254 million for a Heavy, at
least according to:

"http://www.flatoday.com/news/space/stories/2004b/spacestoryN1010OVERRUN.htm"

Looks like Mr. Musk will have a *lot* of upward wiggle room on his
pricing.

- Ed Kyle

wrote:
EELV costs are rising fast - so fast that the Air Force now expects to
pay $138 million for a Medium and up to $254 million for a Heavy, at
least according to:

"http://www.flatoday.com/news/space/stories/2004b/spacestoryN1010OVERRUN.htm"

Looks like Mr. Musk will have a *lot* of upward wiggle room on his
pricing.

And as SpaceX takes market share, the costs of the EELV rockets will continue
to increase. Worse for them, DOD may decide that with working Falcons
it doesn't need both of the EELVs.

Paul

"Paul F. Dietz" wrote in
:

wrote:
EELV costs are rising fast - so fast that the Air Force now expects
to pay $138 million for a Medium and up to $254 million for a Heavy,
at least according to:

"http://www.flatoday.com/news/space/stories/2004b/spacestoryN1010OVERR
UN.htm"

Looks like Mr. Musk will have a *lot* of upward wiggle room on his
pricing.

And as SpaceX takes market share, the costs of the EELV rockets will
continue to increase. Worse for them, DOD may decide that with
working Falcons it doesn't need both of the EELVs.

Careful; shouldn't count your Falcons before they've hatched, and
flown the nest. Though I'd like to see some serious competition in
this business.

--Damon

Damon Hill wrote:

Careful; shouldn't count your Falcons before they've hatched, and
flown the nest. Though I'd like to see some serious competition in
this business.

Oh, without a doubt caution is called for; we've seen lots
of launch startups go bust. But I was speaking hypothetically.

Paul

Damon Hill wrote in message 34...
"Paul F. Dietz" wrote in
:

wrote:
EELV costs are rising fast - so fast that the Air Force now expects
to pay $138 million for a Medium and up to $254 million for a Heavy,
at least according to:

"http://www.flatoday.com/news/space/stories/2004b/spacestoryN1010OVERR
UN.htm"

Looks like Mr. Musk will have a *lot* of upward wiggle room on his
pricing.

Prices can be difficult to wiggle up above the published prices.

And as SpaceX takes market share, the costs of the EELV rockets will
continue to increase. Worse for them, DOD may decide that with
working Falcons it doesn't need both of the EELVs.

Careful; shouldn't count your Falcons before they've hatched, and
flown the nest. Though I'd like to see some serious competition in
this business.

--Damon

If SpaceX can deliver, then they've seriously underpriced their
launches, given the lack of real competition. Not that I'm complaining
though.