Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

"High in the toxic atmosphere of the planet Venus, astronomers on Earth have
discovered signs of what might be life.

If the discovery is confirmed by additional telescope observations and future
space missions, it could turn the gaze of scientists toward one of the brightest
objects in the night sky. Venus, named after the Roman goddess of beauty, roasts
at temperatures of hundreds of degrees and is cloaked by clouds that contain
droplets of corrosive sulfuric acid. Few have focused on the rocky planet as a
habitat for something living.

Instead, for decades, scientists have sought signs of life elsewhere, usually
peering outward to Mars and more recently at Europa, Enceladus and other icy
moons of the giant planets.

The astronomers, who reported the finding on Monday in a pair of papers, have
not collected specimens of Venusian microbes, nor have they snapped any pictures
of them. But with powerful telescopes, they have detected a chemical — phosphine
— in the thick Venus atmosphere. After much analysis, the scientists assert that
something now alive is the only explanation for the chemical’s source.

Some researchers question this hypothesis, and they suggest instead that the gas
could result from unexplained atmospheric or geologic processes on a planet that
remains mysterious. But the finding will also encourage some planetary
scientists to ask whether humanity has overlooked a planet that may have once
been more Earthlike than any other world in our solar system.

“This is an astonishing and ‘out of the blue’ finding,� said Sara Seager, a
planetary scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and an author
of the papers (one published in Nature Astronomy and another submitted to the
journal Astrobiology). “It will definitely fuel more research into the
possibilities for life in Venus’s atmosphere.�"

See:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/s...fe-clouds.html

On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 2:01:21 PM UTC-4, wrote:
"High in the toxic atmosphere of the planet Venus, astronomers on Earth have
discovered signs of what might be life.

If the discovery is confirmed by additional telescope observations and future
space missions, it could turn the gaze of scientists toward one of the brightest
objects in the night sky. Venus, named after the Roman goddess of beauty, roasts
at temperatures of hundreds of degrees and is cloaked by clouds that contain
droplets of corrosive sulfuric acid. Few have focused on the rocky planet as a
habitat for something living.

Instead, for decades, scientists have sought signs of life elsewhere, usually
peering outward to Mars and more recently at Europa, Enceladus and other icy
moons of the giant planets.

The astronomers, who reported the finding on Monday in a pair of papers, have
not collected specimens of Venusian microbes, nor have they snapped any pictures
of them. But with powerful telescopes, they have detected a chemical — phosphine
— in the thick Venus atmosphere. After much analysis, the scientists assert that
something now alive is the only explanation for the chemical’s source.

Some researchers question this hypothesis, and they suggest instead that the gas
could result from unexplained atmospheric or geologic processes on a planet that
remains mysterious. But the finding will also encourage some planetary
scientists to ask whether humanity has overlooked a planet that may have once
been more Earthlike than any other world in our solar system.

“This is an astonishing and ‘out of the blue’ finding,� said Sara Seager, a
planetary scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and an author
of the papers (one published in Nature Astronomy and another submitted to the
journal Astrobiology). “It will definitely fuel more research into the
possibilities for life in Venus’s atmosphere.�"

See:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/s...fe-clouds.html


Now lets get that Venus balloon project going!

In article ,
says...

On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 2:01:21 PM UTC-4, wrote:
"High in the toxic atmosphere of the planet Venus, astronomers on Earth have
discovered signs of what might be life.

snip

See:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/s...fe-clouds.html


Now lets get that Venus balloon project going!

That would be a good thing. The Soviet Union's landers didn't last long
on the surface and the pictures returned revealed nothing but rocks.
It's time that the atmosphere is explored since temperatures and
pressures are much more reasonable at altitude on Venus.

But let's temper our hopes for actual life. What's been detected is a
chemical signature that could indicate life. Or it could be from a so
far unknown chemical process that's unique to the atmosphere of Venus.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...
Now lets get that Venus balloon project going!

That would be a good thing. The Soviet Union's landers didn't last long
on the surface and the pictures returned revealed nothing but rocks.
It's time that the atmosphere is explored since temperatures and
pressures are much more reasonable at altitude on Venus.

But let's temper our hopes for actual life. What's been detected is a
chemical signature that could indicate life. Or it could be from a so
far unknown chemical process that's unique to the atmosphere of Venus.

Jeff

Either way, it would be good science. We either find life, or learn a new
chemical process.

I'm all for it.

I mean I love us exploring Mars, but I'd like to see a little more love for
the love planet.


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net
IT Disaster Response -
https://www.amazon.com/Disaster-Resp...dp/1484221834/

More on Venus:

"On 14 September 2020, a study published in Nature suggested that traces of
phosphine in Venus' atmosphere could be an indication of a biological process:
that is, of microbial alien life. If confirmed, such a finding could completely
change the way we think about the universe, which has us taking a serious look
at what it would take to get human explorers to Venus in the near future. This
article was originally published on 16 December 2014."


"Dale Arney and Chris Jones, from the Space Mission Analysis Branch of NASA’s
Systems Analysis and Concepts Directorate at Langley Research Center, in
Virginia, have been exploring that idea. Perhaps humans could ride through the
upper atmosphere of Venus in a solar-powered airship. Arney and Jones propose
that it may make sense to go to Venus before we ever send humans to Mars.

To put NASA’s High Altitude Venus Operational Concept (HAVOC) mission in
context, it helps to start thinking about exploring the atmosphere of Venus
instead of exploring the surface. “The vast majority of people, when they hear
the idea of going to Venus and exploring, think of the surface, where it’s hot
enough to melt lead and the pressure is the same as if you were almost a mile
underneath the ocean,� Jones says. “I think that not many people have gone and
looked at the relatively much more hospitable atmosphere and how you might
tackle operating there for a while.�"

See:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/...us-exploration

On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 11:32:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:

"Dale Arney and Chris Jones, from the Space Mission Analysis Branch of NASA’s
Systems Analysis and Concepts Directorate at Langley Research Center, in
Virginia, have been exploring that idea. Perhaps humans could ride through the
upper atmosphere of Venus in a solar-powered airship. Arney and Jones propose
that it may make sense to go to Venus before we ever send humans to Mars.

If that airship sprung a leak, what would be their backup plan?

They would literally descend into the pits of Hell.

On 9/15/2020 11:16 PM, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote:
I'm all for it.

I mean I love us exploring Mars, but I'd like to see a little more love
for the love planet.



It (Venus) is certainly easier to get to and come back from.

Dave

Le 15/09/2020 Ã* 12:41, Jeff Findley a écritÂ*:
In article ,
says...

On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 2:01:21 PM UTC-4, wrote:
"High in the toxic atmosphere of the planet Venus, astronomers on Earth have
discovered signs of what might be life.

snip

See:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/s...fe-clouds.html


Now lets get that Venus balloon project going!

That would be a good thing. The Soviet Union's landers didn't last long
on the surface

given a temperature of 450 Celsius (842 F) it is not really surprising
that they didn't "laast long". It was incredible that they managed to
survive at all.

and the pictures returned revealed nothing but rocks.

Obviously at that temperatures and crushing pressures it would highly
surprising to see anything but rocks.

It's time that the atmosphere is explored since temperatures and
pressures are much more reasonable at altitude on Venus.

But let's temper our hopes for actual life. What's been detected is a
chemical signature that could indicate life. Or it could be from a so
far unknown chemical process that's unique to the atmosphere of Venus.

Jeff


There is no known chemical process that could generate phosphine.

On Sep/29/2020 at 16:35, jacob navia wrote :
Le 15/09/2020 Ã* 12:41, Jeff Findley a écritÂ*:
In article ,
says...

On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 2:01:21 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
"High in the toxic atmosphere of the planet Venus, astronomers on
Earth have
discovered signs of what might be life.

snip
See:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/s...fe-clouds.html


Now lets get that Venus balloon project going!

That would be a good thing.Â* The Soviet Union's landers didn't last long
on the surface

given a temperature of 450 Celsius (842 F) it is not really surprising
that they didn't "laast long". It was incredible that they managed to
survive at all.

and the pictures returned revealed nothing but rocks.

Obviously at that temperatures and crushing pressures it would highly
surprising to see anything but rocks.

It's time that the atmosphere is explored since temperatures and
pressures are much more reasonable at altitude on Venus.

But let's temper our hopes for actual life.Â* What's been detected is a
chemical signature that could indicate life.Â* Or it could be from a so
far unknown chemical process that's unique to the atmosphere of Venus.

Jeff


There is no known chemical process that could generate phosphine.

There is also no known chemical process that could generate life. So why
do you assume that life was generated from non life but phosphine was
not generated by non life. Generating phosphine from an unknown process
seems much easier to do than to generate life from an unknown process.


Alain Fournier

jacob navia writes:

[snipped for brevity - line length]

given a temperature of 450 Celsius (842 F) it is not really surprising that
they didn't "laast long". It was incredible that they managed to survive at
all.

and the pictures returned revealed nothing but rocks.

Obviously at that temperatures and crushing pressures it would highly
surprising to see anything but rocks.

It's time that the atmosphere is explored since temperatures and
pressures are much more reasonable at altitude on Venus.

But let's temper our hopes for actual life. What's been detected is a
chemical signature that could indicate life. Or it could be from a so
far unknown chemical process that's unique to the atmosphere of Venus.

Jeff


There is no known chemical process that could generate phosphine.

I've seen one paper that claims simulated lightning can provide a
natural non-life cause for phosphine gas generation:

https://epic.awi.de/id/eprint/11998/1/Gli2004a.pdf

But the results of the Venus study claim that the amounts of phosphine
detected in the Venusian atmosphere far exceeds the amounts that could
be produced this way.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-020-1174-4

This plus source data from two different observational mechanisms is what
makes all this very intriguing.

Dave