The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back

On 2/20/2010 11:50 AM, Roger Conroy wrote:
Who first said, "If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will
follow"?

It's been attributed to a whole range of different people, from John
Wayne, to General Sheridan, to LBJ, to Chuck Colson, to Teddy Roosevelt
(not in a million years would he say that; he used to immediately
dismiss anyone from his presence who would use hard language in public),
to John Adams (did they call testicles "balls" way back then?) to a
Green Berets officer during Vietnam, to a Marine officer during the
same...and that last one sounds exactly right to me...and if some Marine
didn't say it, he certainly should have. :-)
I was thinking more of "winning the battle for hearts and minds" that
LBJ used as a description of the Vietnam War; I suspect the "by the
balls" remark was a response to that.
Here's our version of the Soviet Afghanistan handbook, in this case a
WWII handbook for American troops in Iraq:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=12637899
You can read or download it he
http://www.archive.org/details/AShortGuideToIraq_175

Pat

On Feb 20, 9:36*pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
On 2/20/2010 11:50 AM, Roger Conroy wrote:

Who first said, "If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will
follow"?

It's been attributed to a whole range of different people, from John
Wayne, to General Sheridan, to LBJ, to Chuck Colson, to Teddy Roosevelt
(not in a million years would he say that; he used to immediately
dismiss anyone from his presence who would use hard language in public),
to John Adams (did they call testicles "balls" way back then?) to a
Green Berets officer during Vietnam, to a Marine officer during the
same...and that last one sounds exactly right to me...and if some Marine
didn't say it, he certainly should have. :-)
I was thinking more of "winning the battle for hearts and minds" that
LBJ used as a description of the Vietnam War; I suspect the "by the
balls" remark was a response to that.
Here's our version of the Soviet Afghanistan handbook, in this case a
WWII handbook for American troops in Iraq:http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=12637899
You can read or download it hehttp://www.archive.org/details/AShortGuideToIraq_175

Pat

Another county heard from

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_b...sages/368.html

On Feb 24, 2:16*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Roger Conroy" wrote:

::"Pat Flannery" wrote in message

hdakotatelephone...: Jack Linthicum wrote:

:
: This is all a war of perceptions, General McChrystal said. This is
: not a physical war in terms of how many people you kill or how much
: ground you capture, how many bridges you blow up. This is all in the
: minds of the participants.
:
: Oh, dear God... the "hearts and minds" routine again.
: We'll be seeing "the light at the end of the tunnel" shortly.
:
: Pat
:
:Who first said, "If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will
:follow"?
:

Uh, if you paid attention, Roger...

--
"If you grab them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Chuck Colson

Wrong, see my post on this. Someone gave Colson a plaque with this on
it. Mendell Rivers is the real source.

Jack Linthicum wrote:
On Feb 24, 2:16 am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Roger Conroy" wrote:

:"Pat Flannery" wrote in message

dakotatelephone...:
Jack Linthicum wrote:


This is all a war of perceptions, General McChrystal said. This is
not a physical war in terms of how many people you kill or how
much ground you capture, how many bridges you blow up. This is
all in the minds of the participants.

Oh, dear God... the "hearts and minds" routine again.
We'll be seeing "the light at the end of the tunnel" shortly.

Pat

Who first said, "If you've got them by the balls their hearts and
minds will
follow"?


Uh, if you paid attention, Roger...

--
"If you grab them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow."
-- Chuck Colson

Wrong, see my post on this. Someone gave Colson a plaque with this on
it. Mendell Rivers is the real source.

My curiosity got the better of me, I just _had_ to see who Mendell Rivers
was. Quite the character, eh ? Racist as hell, yet did a lot to improve
things for the ordinary serviceman. I then checked out the quote and found
this page.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_b...sages/368.html

According to a new reference just purchased today, Charles "Chuck" Colson,
President Nixon's general counsel, had a plaque in his office with that
saying. A former Green Beret had "that plaque made up, then gave it to him
because he thought this saying applied to his work in the White House." One
possible origin "is a Vietnam-era congressional debate in which a liberal
Democrat pleaded for programs designed to 'win the hearts and minds of the
downtrodden.' Hawkish Rep. Mendel Rivers (D-S.C.) responded, 'I say get 'em
by the balls and their hearts and minds will follow.' It's doubtful that
this rejoinder began with Rivers, however. It certainly didn't begin with
Charles Colson. Verdict: Author unknown..." From "The Quote Verifier: Who
Said What, Where, and When" by Ralph Keyes, (St. Martin's Griffin, New York,
2006), Page 8.

****** So maybe there is another answer. I also found this one. Which seems
to indicate General Westmoreland, was the author.

http://mountainrunner.us/2006/06/us_army_relearn.html

John Nagl's Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife: Counterinsurgency Lessons
from Malaya and Vietnam is a valuable read, if not for his demonstrable
facts that a) the British military is a learning organization and b)
cultural specifics matter. His analysis of the "Malay Emergency" doesn't
however, if I recall, include that it was Sir Templer that apparently coined
the now common phrase about "winning hearts and minds" for this campaign. If
we want to talk about religious contexts and crusades, it is important to
consider "winning hearts and minds" comes from the English Book of Common
Prayer. But isn't the religious context only important if anybody knows
there is a religious context?

Of course General Westmoreland added his own twist to Sir Templer's: "if you
grab them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow." Perhaps that's
the version too many remember?



cheers.....Jeff