Russian moon landers

On Nov 30, 4:35 am, wrote:
Sorry to be so off topic. I am interested in finding a video or still
pictures from that video that was taken by an astronaut during a moon
landing. It included a view of a Russian moon lander. The video might
have been the personal property of the astronaut. I hope it is
available somehow for viewing. Do any of you know about it?

Well, the one that I am thinking of was filmed before the braking
rockets had been fired, while the U.S. vehicle was still moving over
the moon' s surface (the approach to the landing site of the U.S.
vehicle). The U.S. vehicle landed quite a ways from the Russian craft.
The crew never visited the site of the Russian lander. The Russian
craft had done a pinpoint landing in the center of a very interesting
lunar outcropping. The lunar outcropping was almost square at the top
and sloped outwards to the lunar surface. I saw it on T.V. during the
approach to the landing site of the U.S. craft.

I have downloaded a PDF file of Russian Moon landers and it was
probably Luna 18 or Luna 20 that was filmed. I am more interested in
the film of the place where the lander was sitting.

A few years ago I saw a "documentary" about Apollo. During the landing
of one Apollo LM it was said that Houston had concern about a Soviet
moon probe (Zond or Luna) on flight at the same time an area. Then
the we saw a small object crossing the stars and the speaker said
something like "they missed the Apollo craft, it was no danger".

From what I know of satellite or a/c imaging, I`m very sure that
film sequenz was a fake! Except in rendevous condition, you can never
image a space probe with such detail (you realy saw a body of some
simple shape, more like a ICBM reentry vehicle than a satellite - IIRC)
and such low speed against the star background. And you never get such
a good tracking film from a handheld camera like they suggested from
the LM.

Not only this film was fake, the situation was too. There was a Soviet
probe on the way. But there never was any danger of collision. The
only possible concern could be radio com frequency interferences. But
even that I consider remote, because I assume US and SU agreed on
a Luna frequency list well before.

Btw, this bad documentary (hard to find any good one this times) may
be a British production of 3 (?) part telling the story of von Braun
and Korolev as a race for space. I remember some faked shots of
the N-1 to.

I saw images of the Soviet rovers from lunar orbit taken by Apollo CM.
One with some tracks and one with both together at the meeting point.


## CrossPoint v3.12d R ##

Of what and/or whom should be believe?

Our trusty governments and their DARPA cloak and dagger expertise that
supposedly never make mistakes or intentionally tell lies, or the
independent and peer replicated science from those having nothing to
gain or lose?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”


wrote:
On Nov 30, 4:35 am, wrote:
Sorry to be so off topic. I am interested in finding a video or still
pictures from that video that was taken by an astronaut during a moon
landing. It included a view of a Russian moon lander. The video might
have been the personal property of the astronaut. I hope it is
available somehow for viewing. Do any of you know about it?

Well, the one that I am thinking of was filmed before the braking
rockets had been fired, while the U.S. vehicle was still moving over
the moon' s surface (the approach to the landing site of the U.S.
vehicle). The U.S. vehicle landed quite a ways from the Russian craft.
The crew never visited the site of the Russian lander. The Russian
craft had done a pinpoint landing in the center of a very interesting
lunar outcropping. The lunar outcropping was almost square at the top
and sloped outwards to the lunar surface. I saw it on T.V. during the
approach to the landing site of the U.S. craft.

I have downloaded a PDF file of Russian Moon landers and it was
probably Luna 18 or Luna 20 that was filmed. I am more interested in
the film of the place where the lander was sitting.

A few years ago I saw a "documentary" about Apollo. During the landing
of one Apollo LM it was said that Houston had concern about a Soviet
moon probe (Zond or Luna) on flight at the same time an area. Then
the we saw a small object crossing the stars and the speaker said
something like "they missed the Apollo craft, it was no danger".

From what I know of satellite or a/c imaging, I`m very sure that
film sequenz was a fake! Except in rendevous condition, you can never
image a space probe with such detail (you realy saw a body of some
simple shape, more like a ICBM reentry vehicle than a satellite - IIRC)
and such low speed against the star background. And you never get such
a good tracking film from a handheld camera like they suggested from
the LM.

Not only this film was fake, the situation was too. There was a Soviet
probe on the way. But there never was any danger of collision. The
only possible concern could be radio com frequency interferences. But
even that I consider remote, because I assume US and SU agreed on
a Luna frequency list well before.

Btw, this bad documentary (hard to find any good one this times) may
be a British production of 3 (?) part telling the story of von Braun
and Korolev as a race for space. I remember some faked shots of
the N-1 to.

I saw images of the Soviet rovers from lunar orbit taken by Apollo CM.
One with some tracks and one with both together at the meeting point.

I didn't realize they had sufficient resolution, but what do I know.
Can you post a link to such official images?

You do realize that our mutually perpetrated cold-war takes two to
tango, don't you?

~ BG

I saw images of the Soviet rovers from lunar orbit taken by Apollo CM.
One with some tracks and one with both together at the meeting point.

I didn't realize they had sufficient resolution, but what do I know.

Only dots with shadows at the end of ground tracks.

Can you post a link to such official images?

Sorry no. I got it only on paper long ago.


## CrossPoint v3.12d R ##

On Dec 4, 4:52 am, wrote:
I saw images of the Soviet rovers from lunar orbit taken by Apollo CM.
One with some tracks and one with both together at the meeting point.

I didn't realize they had sufficient resolution, but what do I know.

Only dots with shadows at the end of ground tracks.

Can you post a link to such official images?

Sorry no. I got it only on paper long ago.

## CrossPoint v3.12d R ##

Figures doesn't it.

As of 4 decades ago our USAF could have delivered m/pixel resolution
for roughly 10% the cost of one Apollo mission. as of a decade ago
our USAF and those of our DARPA CIA/MI5 could have delivered 0.1 m/
pixel for roughly the same 10% cost of one Apollo mission. As of
today it might cost roughly the same as one Apollo mission, although
we'd be getting damn near cm/pixel resolution.

~ BG

On Dec 4, 7:52*am, wrote:
I saw images of the Soviet rovers from lunar orbit taken by Apollo CM.
One with some tracks and one with both together at the meeting point.

I didn't realize they had sufficient resolution, but what do I know.

Only dots with shadows at the end of ground tracks.

Can you post a link to such official images?

Sorry no. I got it only on paper long ago.

## CrossPoint v3.12d R ##

Pay no attention to the Lunatic Guthball, hes a well known
kook. He can't even tell Mars and Venus apart. Hes nuts.

I admit to being doubtful of any Apollo orbital pics that could
have had the resolution to image Lunokhod tracks, as the
altitude of the CSM and the relatively low resolution of the
cameras and film used would have precluded that.

Also, Lunokhod 2 was launched for the Moon after the
last Apollo Moon flight, A17, returned to Earth.

Andre

On Dec 4, 7:52 am, wrote:
I saw images of the Soviet rovers from lunar orbit taken by Apollo CM.
One with some tracks and one with both together at the meeting point.

I didn't realize they had sufficient resolution, but what do I know.

Only dots with shadows at the end of ground tracks.

Can you post a link to such official images?

Sorry no. I got it only on paper long ago.

## CrossPoint v3.12d R ##

Pay no attention to the Lunatic Guthball, hes a well known
kook. He can't even tell Mars and Venus apart. Hes nuts.

I admit to being doubtful of any Apollo orbital pics that could
have had the resolution to image Lunokhod tracks, as the
altitude of the CSM and the relatively low resolution of the
cameras and film used would have precluded that.

The tracks were not realy resolved (left/right wheels). It was
rather a distortion line but well above the grain. Oblique shot
with low sun, well shadows. As we see tracks on Earth in satellite
images well below real resolution I assumed same for moon too.


Also, Lunokhod 2 was launched for the Moon after the
last Apollo Moon flight, A17, returned to Earth.

Andre

Uh, thats a good argument! The whole story was short and long ago. I got
several images by a friend from a book (1970s?) of a US UFO freak. The
authors name may be Steckling (according Google now) and he claimed
Alien Bases on the moon. Most of his image "proof" was beyond anything
(lakes, cities, forest and he even saw the atmosphere of Moon!).

But about 3 standed out. One was a beautifule douple ring crater I
keept on file. According Steckling it was Apollo 15 image 15-12640.
I saw something like once by a (.5 m) telescope too. Interesting
but not alien.

Next was an oblique shoot with one crater in center. A small track
went in and out of the crater almost by its center. No begin and no
end. That was the way the SU rovers operated on the moon. They avoided
craters or always took them by center to avoid a trunover to a side.

The next were two such track ends on one image and at end of each
was a dot with a big shadow. There was some problem to explain it
as rolling rocks (IIRC) and the tracks were of same type. So I debunked
the aliens as the Soviet moon rovers. But I did not check the dates.


## CrossPoint v3.12d R ##

On Dec 5, 8:45*am, wrote:
On Dec 4, 7:52 am, wrote:
I saw images of the Soviet rovers from lunar orbit taken by Apollo CM.
One with some tracks and one with both together at the meeting point.

On Dec 5, 5:45 am, wrote:
On Dec 4, 7:52 am, wrote:
I saw images of the Soviet rovers from lunar orbit taken by Apollo CM.
One with some tracks and one with both together at the meeting point.

On Dec 4, 2:23 pm, Andre Lieven wrote:
On Dec 4, 7:52 am, wrote:

I saw images of the Soviet rovers from lunar orbit taken by Apollo CM.
One with some tracks and one with both together at the meeting point.

I didn't realize they had sufficient resolution, but what do I know.

Only dots with shadows at the end of ground tracks.

Can you post a link to such official images?

Sorry no. I got it only on paper long ago.

## CrossPoint v3.12d R ##

Pay no attention to the Lunatic Guthball, hes a well known
kook. He can't even tell Mars and Venus apart. Hes nuts.

I admit to being doubtful of any Apollo orbital pics that could
have had the resolution to image Lunokhod tracks, as the
altitude of the CSM and the relatively low resolution of the
cameras and film used would have precluded that.

Also, Lunokhod 2 was launched for the Moon after the
last Apollo Moon flight, A17, returned to Earth.

Andre

Got any fly-by-rocket lander in prototype/demo configuration that can
safely reenter, down-range and soft land itself (with or w/o crew)? I
didn't think so.

~ BG

On Dec 4, 5:24*pm, OM wrote:
On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 14:23:30 -0800 (PST), Andre Lieven

wrote:
Pay no attention to the Lunatic Guthball, hes a well known
kook. He can't even tell Mars and Venus apart. Hes nuts.

...What's embarassing is that Seneca's been around here long enough to
know better. He really has.

Nor does anyone need a lot of experience with Guthball's syphilitic
madness to work out that it IS madness...

Andre