We found Saturn!

Would appreciate any suggestions for something halfway decent that can
aim high into the sky and is easy to use?
Thanks in advance,
Steve


Steve,

There's a pattern forming in this thread. I agree with the consensus -
provided you're interested in _visual_ observation. I think you would
be quite pleased with the performance and value of the Orion Skyquest
Dobsonians; either XT-6 or XT-8. I would highly recommend going with
the XT-8 (8") since it's solidly in your price range. (See links
below) The reason is that although the 8" is only two inches in
diameter bigger (33%) than the 6 ", the surface area (important for
light gathering) will be roughly 56% more. And the 8" is still very
portable; an important aspect many times overlooked by most eager new
comers to the hobby. What good is an awesome scope that you won't use
because it too much trouble take out the closet?

And now is a good time to buy one. Orion is running a special offer
which makes it a really sweet deal. They are currently upgrading the
finder scopes from the standard 6X30 (6 power by 30mm objective lens)
to a right angled 9X50. Bigger finders make it easier to locate faint
objects and the *right angle* will flip the image. This is good
because the finder itself flips the image once (makes every thing look
upside down) so adding the right angle (90 deg.) mirror flips the
image again making it right-side up. In addition, they throw in a
Deluxe laser collimator (handy tool to have for aligning the
telescope's internal mirrors, but will not substitute for some good
tools and plenty reading - but that's a whole nother subject you will
ask about later) and a very nice star chart.

Oh and as was already stated, you get two eye pieces (they are
actually pretty good for starters). You also get Starry Night for the
computer (very nice) and a nice DVD (for TV) to introduce newbies to
what's out there. Nice extras I think.

*NOTE - The scopes addressed here or the Dobsonian species. If you
think that you will want to get into photography, let the group know
so that folks here can recommend a different scope. Dobs are great
for viewing. Very stable. But they do not track the object. You will
have to follow it as it moves across the sky (actually, it doesn't
move, but is the Earth that's turning - but you knew that). You will
be able to hold a camera to the eye piece and snap a photo or two of
the Moon, Saturn, or Jupiter, but for really nice pictures, you need a
scope that tracks. (Dobs can be made to track (not easily), but if
your true interest is in pictures, it would be best to avoid them and
buy a scope more suited for photography)

The links below will take you to two versions of the 8" scope
mentioned above. The Classic model with shipping will cost you about
$400. That gives $100 for accessories. The XT-8 Intelliscope is
computer assisted (a hand held unit plugs into the scope base and
directs the user to 14000 celestial objects and will run almost $600 w/
shipping. Handy to have, but amateur astronomers are encouraged not to
be computer dependent, but to learn the sky. If you fork over the
extra cash for the object locator and learn the sky, you'll be glad in
the long run you did both.

The first accessory that you will want (IMO need) is a 2X Barlow. A
barlow will double the magnification achieved by any eye piece used
with it; plus add eye relief. Orion offers the Shorty and Shorty Plus,
both also on sale; $31 and $61 respectively.

I am not affiliated with ORION beyond that of being a very satisfied
customer.

Below are four links to the equipment discussed above. Two are repeats
of the ones posted by Yo' Momma. Two are to the Barlows.

Orion XT-8 Classic
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/pr...oductID=252215

Orion XT-8 intelliscope w/object locator
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/pr...oductID=237857

Shorty-Plusâ„¢ 2x 3-Element Barlow
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/pr...oductID=183150

Shortyâ„¢ 2x Barlow Lens, 1.25"
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/pr...iProductID=253

***** But before you do anything, take time to check out the links
given by Starlord and Davoud. They will give you knowledge you need to
buy with some confidence.

Errol
www.pasnola.org

There's always the Stargazer Steve Dobs too and as an owner of one I know
it's a good scope.


--
There are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the
universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the
Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be
brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the
heavens.


The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html


"Starboard" wrote in message
ups.com...

Would appreciate any suggestions for something halfway decent that can
aim high into the sky and is easy to use?
Thanks in advance,
Steve


Steve,

There's a pattern forming in this thread. I agree with the consensus -
provided you're interested in _visual_ observation. I think you would
be quite pleased with the performance and value of the Orion Skyquest
Dobsonians; either XT-6 or XT-8. I would highly recommend going with
the XT-8 (8") since it's solidly in your price range. (See links
below) The reason is that although the 8" is only two inches in
diameter bigger (33%) than the 6 ", the surface area (important for
light gathering) will be roughly 56% more. And the 8" is still very
portable; an important aspect many times overlooked by most eager new
comers to the hobby. What good is an awesome scope that you won't use
because it too much trouble take out the closet?

And now is a good time to buy one. Orion is running a special offer
which makes it a really sweet deal. They are currently upgrading the
finder scopes from the standard 6X30 (6 power by 30mm objective lens)
to a right angled 9X50. Bigger finders make it easier to locate faint
objects and the *right angle* will flip the image. This is good
because the finder itself flips the image once (makes every thing look
upside down) so adding the right angle (90 deg.) mirror flips the
image again making it right-side up. In addition, they throw in a
Deluxe laser collimator (handy tool to have for aligning the
telescope's internal mirrors, but will not substitute for some good
tools and plenty reading - but that's a whole nother subject you will
ask about later) and a very nice star chart.

Oh and as was already stated, you get two eye pieces (they are
actually pretty good for starters). You also get Starry Night for the
computer (very nice) and a nice DVD (for TV) to introduce newbies to
what's out there. Nice extras I think.

*NOTE - The scopes addressed here or the Dobsonian species. If you
think that you will want to get into photography, let the group know
so that folks here can recommend a different scope. Dobs are great
for viewing. Very stable. But they do not track the object. You will
have to follow it as it moves across the sky (actually, it doesn't
move, but is the Earth that's turning - but you knew that). You will
be able to hold a camera to the eye piece and snap a photo or two of
the Moon, Saturn, or Jupiter, but for really nice pictures, you need a
scope that tracks. (Dobs can be made to track (not easily), but if
your true interest is in pictures, it would be best to avoid them and
buy a scope more suited for photography)

The links below will take you to two versions of the 8" scope
mentioned above. The Classic model with shipping will cost you about
$400. That gives $100 for accessories. The XT-8 Intelliscope is
computer assisted (a hand held unit plugs into the scope base and
directs the user to 14000 celestial objects and will run almost $600 w/
shipping. Handy to have, but amateur astronomers are encouraged not to
be computer dependent, but to learn the sky. If you fork over the
extra cash for the object locator and learn the sky, you'll be glad in
the long run you did both.

The first accessory that you will want (IMO need) is a 2X Barlow. A
barlow will double the magnification achieved by any eye piece used
with it; plus add eye relief. Orion offers the Shorty and Shorty Plus,
both also on sale; $31 and $61 respectively.

I am not affiliated with ORION beyond that of being a very satisfied
customer.

Below are four links to the equipment discussed above. Two are repeats
of the ones posted by Yo' Momma. Two are to the Barlows.

Orion XT-8 Classic
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/pr...oductID=252215

Orion XT-8 intelliscope w/object locator
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/pr...oductID=237857

Shorty-PlusT 2x 3-Element Barlow
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/pr...oductID=183150

ShortyT 2x Barlow Lens, 1.25"
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/pr...iProductID=253

***** But before you do anything, take time to check out the links
given by Starlord and Davoud. They will give you knowledge you need to
buy with some confidence.

Errol
www.pasnola.org

The XT-8 Intelliscope is
computer assisted (a hand held unit plugs into the scope base and
directs the user to 14000 celestial objects and will run almost $600 w/
shipping. Handy to have, but amateur astronomers are encouraged not to
be computer dependent, but to learn the sky. If you fork over the
extra cash for the object locator and learn the sky, you'll be glad in
the long run you did both.


That object locator feature sounds very tempting to get. How does the
telescope know where in the sky it is pointing?

I am assuming you have to enter your exact location and the the date
and time and it uses the same database that some of the web sites
have, but it also has to know where it is pointing somehow.

Just curious.

Thanks for the tips.

Steve

" wrote:

The XT-8 Intelliscope is
computer assisted (a hand held unit plugs into the scope base and
directs the user to 14000 celestial objects and will run almost $600 w/
shipping. Handy to have, but amateur astronomers are encouraged not to
be computer dependent, but to learn the sky. If you fork over the
extra cash for the object locator and learn the sky, you'll be glad in
the long run you did both.


That object locator feature sounds very tempting to get. How does the
telescope know where in the sky it is pointing?

I am assuming you have to enter your exact location and the the date
and time and it uses the same database that some of the web sites
have, but it also has to know where it is pointing somehow.


Yes - unless it has a built in GPS, which will nake the location and
time entry superfluous. It will then point to a couple (or three)
bright stars in succession and ask you to line them up exactly and
press enter. Once you have done that it's ready to find anything in
its database.

Eugene L Griessel

People who want to share their religious views with you almost never
want you to share yours with them.

(Eugene Griessel) wrote:

" wrote:

The XT-8 Intelliscope is
computer assisted (a hand held unit plugs into the scope base and
directs the user to 14000 celestial objects and will run almost $600 w/
shipping. Handy to have, but amateur astronomers are encouraged not to
be computer dependent, but to learn the sky. If you fork over the
extra cash for the object locator and learn the sky, you'll be glad in
the long run you did both.


That object locator feature sounds very tempting to get. How does the
telescope know where in the sky it is pointing?

I am assuming you have to enter your exact location and the the date
and time and it uses the same database that some of the web sites
have, but it also has to know where it is pointing somehow.


Yes - unless it has a built in GPS, which will nake the location and
time entry superfluous. It will then point to a couple (or three)
bright stars in succession and ask you to line them up exactly and
press enter. Once you have done that it's ready to find anything in
its database.

PS. I never seem to have the 8 penlight batteries mine requires handy
so I seldom use it!

Eugene L Griessel

There is always an easy solution to every human problem
- neat, plausible and wrong.

That object locator feature sounds very tempting to get. How does the
telescope know where in the sky it is pointing?

I am assuming you have to enter your exact location and the the date
and time and it uses the same database

Read the thread I posted Feb 12th (XT-12 ... object locator
performance)

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.a...bcef867ebb4b3f

Object locator requires a 9V battery. If the spec's are correct, it is
energy effecient.

Errol

On Feb 13, 7:22 am, "Starboard" wrote:
That object locator feature sounds very tempting to get. How does the
telescope know where in the sky it is pointing?

I am assuming you have to enter your exact location and the the date
and time and it uses the same database

Read the thread I posted Feb 12th (XT-12 ... object locator
performance)

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.a..._frm/thread/08...

Object locator requires a 9V battery. If the spec's are correct, it is
energy effecient.

Errol

Thanks for the info. I'm leaning towards getting the object locator.

Should I buy this telescope online or might I find it at a dealer? We
are in North Jersey not far from NYC.

Thanks!

Steve

You might consider setting the scope aside and spending some time to simply
learn the sky. You should be able to recognize the major constellations and
bright stars the moment you step outside. There are lots of good books for
learning the sky. I particularly like "Discover the Stars" by Richard
Berry.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33°27'59"N, 117°05'53"W

Should I buy this telescope online or might I find it at a dealer? We
are in North Jersey not far from NYC.
Steve

Steve,

You will fair well regardless how you decide to purchase. I apologize
in advance for the lengthily explanation and diarrhea of the mouth.

If you buy from Orion, you will likely get the best price and gain the
experience of assembling the telescope (gain insight on how your new
telescope works). The assembly process will take anywhere from an hour
to a few. If you follow the directions in the manual, you should be
able to assemble it without any heartache. I assembled both my XT-8
and XT-12 intelliscope without much trouble. I used my XT-8 with great
enthusiasm for over a year. After about a year, I bought a nice set of
alignment tools and discovered that my scope, although performing very
good, could be improved. The focuser was not exactly square to the OTA
(outer tuba assembly - the main body of the scope) and secondary was
off by a hair. I didn't have to correct them, but I was starting to
loose sleep, so I corrected. Of course during the process of
correcting, I put finger prints on my secondary mirror - so see how
this business is.... Now here's a tip for you: Never touch your
mirrors. Never work over the openings with tools that might fall and
crash into one of your mirrors. When working inside the OTA, turn it
horizontal. Always use extreme caution when working around your
mirrors. You know what I do? I do like Ted Kennedy; throw money at the
problem (he said that there was no problem in America that he couldn't
fix by taxing the rich). I give the kids money and ask my wife to take
them to Wal-Mart. No distractions. Problem solved.

If you buy through someone like Company 7 (linked in Davoud's earlier
reply), you'll pay a little more, but for the extra money, you'll know
that your scope has been assembled by experts in the field. The reps
at Company 7 will do a little tweaking here and there to make sure
that the scope is in tip top shape. If I remember correctly, they
charge $90 over the retail cost (Orion's price) to assemble and
collimate. If you are not suave with a ruler , patient and articulate
(and being that Company 7 is not far from you (approx 75 mi - don't
know you exact location)), this may be your best route. Of course,
collimating a scope is the art of carefully adjusting mirrors, one of
which is mounted in a floating cell. My point is that if they adjust
it perfectly in their shop, chances are if will need to be tweaked a
little by the time you get home (shock and vibe during the ride home).
Nonetheless, you will need to learn this regardless of who sets your
scope up initially; them or you.

*It should be noted that they (assuming you buy from Company 7) will
check the alignment of the focuser, secondary mirror assembly, and
mount the encoders. These things are sturdy and would not likely need
to be repositioned. They come installed from the factory but know
that these scopes are mass produced and that if it was made on a
Friday (just kidding, I don't know what day is the last day of the
work week in the Chinese factories, or even if they get a day off),
yadda, yadda, and then it gets bumped during shipping. It will
probably not be perfect when it arrives. But it will be close. Close
enough to satisfy you until you're confident/willing to tear it down,
square things up, risk ruining your mirror.... Enough about that.

The primary will definitely need adjustment (need to be collimated).
And it's the easiest of all the components to align (collimate). With
a little practice, you will be able to do it within a couple of
minutes _ in the dark_. Also, *how to collimate* has been discussed
in this group more times than you can count. Search the group archives
when you get to that point. If you still have questions, post them and
you will get prompt help, I assure you. From time to time, the kooks
post here. But some of the smartest minds in astronomy also post here.
You will see.

One more thing. I was told by an s.a.a regular (Jan Owen) to slow down
and and research all the areas of interest before making a purchase.
Good advice it was. For example, do you think that by upgrading,
buying this 8" scope, you will be able see the beautiful, colorful
images seen on the internet and in magazines? You won't. Many folks
buy telescopes thinking they're going to get these big beautiful
views. They meet with disappointment. If big colorful views of planets
and nebulas and galaxies you desire, try hubble.org or .com, whatever
it is. And contrary to its outward appearance, I am not trying to
discourage you from adopting astronomy as a hobby worthy of
investment. Quite the opposite.

It is my opinion that one who has realistic expectations from the
beginning, and learns _how to look_, and learns the science behind the
objects and their movements, will be much more fulfilled than he who
seeks out pretty pictures. To gaze upon light millions of years in
travel. And once you learn to look, you will see plenty, e.g. rings
within the rings of Saturn, surface detail like cloud bands and some
moons (although they will appear as dots of light). You will make out
colorful cloud bands on Jupiter along with the big red spot and some
moons. You will see the craters on the moon with striking clarity. You
will see, depending on your level of light pollution, a few nebulas
and many star clusters, even a few faint (and I mean faint) galaxies.
The key will be finding dark skies and still you will need to learn to
see. The practice of letting your eyes dark adapt and learning to use
your averted vision will come with practice. Check out this link on
the subject. The light pollution map half way down the page is for
your area. http://www.astropix.com/HTML/H_OTHER/SATPOL1.HTM

Errol
www.pasnola.org

wrote in message
oups.com...
The XT-8 Intelliscope is
computer assisted (a hand held unit plugs into the scope base and
directs the user to 14000 celestial objects and will run almost $600 w/
shipping. Handy to have, but amateur astronomers are encouraged not to
be computer dependent, but to learn the sky. If you fork over the
extra cash for the object locator and learn the sky, you'll be glad in
the long run you did both.


That object locator feature sounds very tempting to get. How does the
telescope know where in the sky it is pointing?

I am assuming you have to enter your exact location and the the date
and time and it uses the same database that some of the web sites
have, but it also has to know where it is pointing somehow.

Just curious.

Thanks for the tips.

Steve


The Intelliscope works a bit differently.

Here is my simple, amateurish description of how the Intelliscope works.
http://www.schlatter.org/Dad/Astrono...ope%20page.htm

Once you have aligned your Intelliscope as described on my page, if you want
to find a planet, the computer will ask for the date -- enter the date and
the Intelliscope computer will calculate where the planet you are looking
for is and will tell you which way to push the scope to find that planet.


The Intelliscope is no substitute for "knowing the sky." You'll want to be
able to find objects in the sky without the computer and you must be able to
identify at least the major stars without the computer because you align the
scope using two stars that you select.

I use my Intelliscope computer about 1/3 to 1/2 the time, mainly to locate
faint, fuzzy deep sky objects that I probably would miss otherwise.

Remember -- the Intelliscope scopes ARE NOT MOTORIZED. The Intelliscope
controller tells you which direction to push the scope up/down, left/right
and it tells you when you are pointed at the object you have selected. The
motorized scopes -- such as the Meade ETX scopes -- require you to enter
date, time, and location -- and the time and location must be exact, that's
why more and more of the GO-TO scopes are using a built-in GPS receiver to
tell the scope the date, time, and location.