WTF? Astronauts behaving badly!

On 2007-02-06 09:55:13 -0800, (Derek Lyons) said:

...The UCMJ only takes unquestioned precedence when the
offense occurs between individuals under the UCMJ *and* it occurs on
federal property.

Here's the breakdown as I see it:

--The Orlando DA is charging her with attempted murder, but could drop
the kidnapping charge

--The local Federal prosecutor could then charge her with attempted
kidnapping under the Lindbergh Act.

--And even then the Navy JAG office could charge her under the various
"Conduct Unbecoming..." UCMJ codes.

....all without the various prosecutions stepping on each other due to
double jeopardy. Jeez, the woman is toast. I wonder what kind of plea
deal the Orlando DA will offer her, because the only reason they'd do
so would be sheer mercy. She's already spilled her guts to the police.
A cop actually witnessed her disposing of her kidnapping/murder kit.
And the possibility of Federal and military prosecutions gives the DA
enormous leverage. He/She really doesn't have to offer Nowak a plea at
all.

I'm surprised that her counsel even tried to have her released on bail,
unless it was to walk her straight into a private mental health
facility. It's got to be hitting home that she's looking at a long
stretch of hard prison time, probable divorce and losing custody of her
kids, being kicked out of the Navy and losing her pension and benefits,
etc. She's clearly a high suicide risk.


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It would be awful hard to make that charge 'go away' considering the
detailed preperation made by Nowak - including items which could be
construed as showing evidence of stalking and other items which
provided a greater possible threat.


NASA probably should can her immediately. Or suspend without pay until
a not-guilty verdict is handed down (if that actually happens). NASA
probably has high standards for the astronaut corps, and they would need
to enforce those standards.

Boot all 3. Fraternization will get you booted from the military.
These folks are active duty military. Same rules should apply here.

Dave

On 2007-02-06 13:43:04 -0800, David Spain said:

Boot all 3. Fraternization will get you booted from the military.
These folks are active duty military. Same rules should apply here.

Let's be accurate and fair. From what I've read the victim is a
retired USAF officer, not on active duty. Besides that, nothing I've
read so far indicates that she even knew that Nowak and Oefelein were
romantically involved. Hell, I haven't seen it confirmed that Oefelein
actually jilted Nowak for the sake of this other woman. Nowak may have
just imagined that.


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Bill Baker wrote:
On 2007-02-06 13:43:04 -0800, David Spain said:

Boot all 3. Fraternization will get you booted from the military.
These folks are active duty military. Same rules should apply here.

Let's be accurate and fair. From what I've read the victim is a retired
USAF officer, not on active duty. Besides that, nothing I've read so
far indicates that she even knew that Nowak and Oefelein were
romantically involved. Hell, I haven't seen it confirmed that Oefelein
actually jilted Nowak for the sake of this other woman. Nowak may have
just imagined that.


According to CNN:
quote
Nowak, a Navy captain, and Shipman, an Air Force captain, were both
"in a relationship" with Navy Cmdr. Bill Oefelein, another astronaut.
end-quote

No attribution to the "in a relationship" phrase.

further down:
quote
Inside the car [Nowak's], police found a half dozen latex gloves, MapQuest
directions from Houston to Orlando International Airport [in which parking
lot said confrontation took place], e-mails from Shipman to Oefelein [can
imagine what these contained], diapers that Nowak said she wore to reduce
stops along the highway, a letter indicated how much she [Nowak?] loved
Oefelein and directions to Shipman's home address in Florida.
end-quote

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/06/ast...ted/index.html

The article doesn't mention retired anything, so I presume all 3 are
active duty.

If the astronaut office can't discipline these guys, the military should.
Obviously I'm not in a position to decide, otherwise I'd be quiet. But
if the old saying holds "where there's smoke..." its not just Nowak who's
in trouble here....

Dave

PS: New pay grade for NASA: astronaught...

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 22:09:36 GMT, in a place far, far away, David
Spain made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

According to CNN:
quote
Nowak, a Navy captain, and Shipman, an Air Force captain, were both
"in a relationship" with Navy Cmdr. Bill Oefelein, another astronaut.
end-quote

No attribution to the "in a relationship" phrase.

Given that it's CNN, I'll await actual evidence.

If the astronaut office can't discipline these guys, the military should.
Obviously I'm not in a position to decide, otherwise I'd be quiet. But
if the old saying holds "where there's smoke..." its not just Nowak who's
in trouble here....

No, but she's definitely in the most trouble, by a long shot. The
other two only have careers (and perhaps marriages) at risk.

Rand Simberg wrote:

Given that it's CNN, I'll await actual evidence.

True, and right to the point. It was a quick search.

If the astronaut office can't discipline these guys, the military should.
Obviously I'm not in a position to decide, otherwise I'd be quiet. But
if the old saying holds "where there's smoke..." its not just Nowak who's
in trouble here....

No, but she's definitely in the most trouble, by a long shot. The
other two only have careers (and perhaps marriages) at risk.

I know I'm coming off harshly, but this is particularly bad behavior for
astronauts. The personal tragedies here are also what's so sad about the
whole deal.

Dave

David Spain writes:

Rand Simberg wrote:

Given that it's CNN, I'll await actual evidence.

True, and right to the point. It was a quick search.

If the astronaut office can't discipline these guys, the military should.
Obviously I'm not in a position to decide, otherwise I'd be quiet. But
if the old saying holds "where there's smoke..." its not just Nowak who's
in trouble here....

No, but she's definitely in the most trouble, by a long shot. The
other two only have careers (and perhaps marriages) at risk.

I know I'm coming off harshly, but this is particularly bad behavior for
astronauts. The personal tragedies here are also what's so sad about the
whole deal.

On the other hand, if astronauts have time to be involved in "almost
romances", that's surely the sign they're not busy enough! Only two
work weeks every 6 or 12 months...


--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

NOTE: The most fundamental particles in this product are held
together by a "gluing" force about which little is currently known
and whose adhesive power can therefore not be permanently
guaranteed.

On 2007-02-06 14:14:38 -0800, h (Rand
Simberg) said:

No, but she's definitely in the most trouble, by a long shot. The
other two only have careers (and perhaps marriages) at risk.

Oefelein's Navy career is dead, not just his astronaut career. Looks
like he's just short of qualifying for a twenty-year service pension
and benefits, too. If the Navy cashiers him now, he stands to lose a
lot of money. And the services have been keen to be strict re.
fraternization violations of late. I bet he gets a reprimand in his
service jacket and a strong, private word in his ear that he should
resign his commission immediately.

Oddly enough, NASA might have to keep him on as an astronaut even if
the Navy boots him, because he didn't break any NASA work rules. He'll
never fly again, of course.

But I don't see why Shipman would get whacked, even if she is still a
serving officer. Oefelein isn't married. I've read nothing indicating
that either was the other's direct superior. For them to "fraternize"
would be permissable under the UCMJ, I would think.



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On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 22:21:36 GMT, in a place far, far away, David
Spain made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

Rand Simberg wrote:

Given that it's CNN, I'll await actual evidence.

True, and right to the point. It was a quick search.

If the astronaut office can't discipline these guys, the military should.
Obviously I'm not in a position to decide, otherwise I'd be quiet. But
if the old saying holds "where there's smoke..." its not just Nowak who's
in trouble here....

No, but she's definitely in the most trouble, by a long shot. The
other two only have careers (and perhaps marriages) at risk.

I know I'm coming off harshly, but this is particularly bad behavior for
astronauts. The personal tragedies here are also what's so sad about the
whole deal.

I agree. This should be the end of the NASA careers of all involved
(if they really were involved). If marriages end, that's sad, but
affairs while married aren't what we should expect from the astronaut
corps, considering how overstaffed it is.