Russian Clipper

"John Cocktosen" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
This vehicle will land on a runway like the shuttle, right? I wish NASA
would go this route--a scaled-down version of the shuttle--rather than
go backwards to Apollo.

Is there a website with diagrams and descriptions of the Clipper?

Thanks!

Mark Lopa



Could a scaled-down shuttle reach the Moon or Mars?

No.

But my canoe can't take me across the Atlantic either.



Time to go beyond low Earth orbit again...

Agreed.

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 01:05:41 +0000, Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:


"John Cocktosen" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
This vehicle will land on a runway like the shuttle, right? I wish NASA
would go this route--a scaled-down version of the shuttle--rather than
go backwards to Apollo.

Is there a website with diagrams and descriptions of the Clipper?

Thanks!

Mark Lopa



Could a scaled-down shuttle reach the Moon or Mars?

No.

But my canoe can't take me across the Atlantic either.


But, I did see a Hobie Cat getting ready to cross the Atlantic.


--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @

wrote:
This vehicle will land on a runway like the shuttle, right? I wish NASA
would go this route--a scaled-down version of the shuttle--rather than
go backwards to Apollo.


NASA is actually working with SpaceDev to develop a small HL-20-derived
space plane as one of the COTS program proposals:

http://www.spacedev.com/newsite/temp...le.php?pid=542

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerc...ation_Services


The Dream Chaser will either carry up to six astronauts to ISS, or
cargo. It can also potentially be used for suborbital and orbital space
tourism.
-Mike

The $500 million NASA Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS)
demonstration program had 27 proposals. Six were selected for
negotiaations, including SpaceDev and its proposed SpaceDev Dream
Chaser, based on the NASA HL-20 Space Taxi or Personnel L:aunch System
(PLS). The HL-20 was reverse engineered from the successful orbital
Soviet BOR-4.

SpaceDev is proposing a four pasenger suborbital Dream Chaser, using
its proven, safe, and improved performance hybrid rocket motors based
on those SpaceDev developed for SSO.

For COTS, SpaceDev has said it proposed a six passenger version of the
Dream Chaser. Their pitch is 1) they are using an existing and proven
vehicle design, 2) their team mate Adam Aircraft is a proven is
composite airframe design and manufacturing, and 3) SpaceDev is using
their proven human rated hybrid rocket motors.

It seems like SpaceDev really does have the best, simplest, safest,
proven vehicle and technology, and with their successful track record
over the years, it will be criminal if SpaceDev does not win one of the
COTS contracts.

I also believe that SpaceDev's Dream Chaser is NASA's only hope for a
piloted vehicle, ever. All other concepts are capsules in which the
astronauts will just be passive passengers. SpaceDev's Dream Chaser
looks like a sorts car type of space ship, and should get the general
tax-paying public interested in and maybe even excited about space,
again.


wrote:
wrote:
This vehicle will land on a runway like the shuttle, right? I wish NASA
would go this route--a scaled-down version of the shuttle--rather than
go backwards to Apollo.


NASA is actually working with SpaceDev to develop a small HL-20-derived
space plane as one of the COTS program proposals:

http://www.spacedev.com/newsite/temp...le.php?pid=542

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerc...ation_Services


The Dream Chaser will either carry up to six astronauts to ISS, or
cargo. It can also potentially be used for suborbital and orbital space
tourism.
-Mike

On 2 Aug 2006 13:17:28 -0700, wrote:


wrote:
This vehicle will land on a runway like the shuttle, right? I wish NASA
would go this route--a scaled-down version of the shuttle--rather than
go backwards to Apollo.


NASA is actually working with SpaceDev to develop a small HL-20-derived
space plane as one of the COTS program proposals:

http://www.spacedev.com/newsite/temp...le.php?pid=542

Somewhat similar to the Soviet Spiral space plane, but the Dream
Chaser looks much bigger:
http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/model1.jpg

(this has annoying music!)
http://www.buran.ru/htm/str126.htm

The MAKS concept looked interesting. Here's a mock-up:
http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/maxokb2.jpg

--
Kulvinder Singh Matharu

Website : www.metalvortex.com
Contact : www.metalvortex.com/contact/

wrote in message
oups.com...
It seems like SpaceDev really does have the best, simplest, safest,
proven vehicle and technology, and with their successful track record
over the years, it will be criminal if SpaceDev does not win one of the
COTS contracts.

That's a matter of opinion, isn't it?

I also believe that SpaceDev's Dream Chaser is NASA's only hope for a
piloted vehicle, ever.

That's overstating things just a bit. There were five other proposals
"selected for negotiations".

All other concepts are capsules in which the
astronauts will just be passive passengers.

This makes the capsules simpler. Wings, moveable aerodynamic surfaces,
landing gear, APU's, and etc. add complexity which can adversely impact
safety. Also, NASA and the US defense industry do have more than a little
experience with capsules.

Note that the t/Space CXV (in the picture on the Wikipedia page you posted)
looks more than a little like the capsules being developed by the Discoverer
program way back in the late 1950's. The first successful Corona mission
was in 1960. So you really think that recovery of items from space using
reentry capsule and parachute technology doesn't have a proven track record?

http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~kclarke/Corona/story2.htm

SpaceDev's Dream Chaser
looks like a sorts car type of space ship, and should get the general
tax-paying public interested in and maybe even excited about space,
again.

I call b.s. on this. Nothing as insignificant as a new mini space shuttle
will get the "general tax-paying public interested in and maybe even excited
about space". Interest in the space age peaked when Neil Armstrong set foot
on the moon in 1969. In case you haven't noticed, it's been going downhill
every since.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)

"Kulvinder Singh Matharu" wrote in message
...
Somewhat similar to the Soviet Spiral space plane, but the Dream
Chaser looks much bigger:
http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/model1.jpg

That's because NASA copied (with some improvement) the Soviet Spiral design
when it created the HL-20. There was much copying back and forth during the
Cold War, but the US doesn't generally like to admit that we would ever copy
anything the Soviet Union did first.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)

--
Danny Dot
www.mobbinggonemad.org


wrote in message
oups.com...
This vehicle will land on a runway like the shuttle, right? I wish NASA
would go this route--a scaled-down version of the shuttle--rather than
go backwards to Apollo.

Is there a website with diagrams and descriptions of the Clipper?

Thanks!

Mark Lopa


I was a design engineer for NASA during the transition back to a capsule. I
proposed a requirement for a vehicle that can survive a failure of the
active flight control system on entry. A capsule can do this easily. A
lifting body would have to go to zero lift trim, flip the seats in the
cockpit, and the crew would pull 8 Gs on a low earth entry and 20 Gs on a
lunar return entry. And yes the crew can pull 20Gs on an entry. The Navy
did several 20 Gs entries in a centrifuge in 1963 and all did the entry
without any problems. The crew could even fly with a thumb wheel through
the entire entry.

in article , Jeff Findley at
wrote on 8/3/06 12:35 PM:

"Kulvinder Singh Matharu" wrote in message
...

Somewhat similar to the Soviet Spiral space plane, but the Dream Chaser looks
much bigger:
http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/model1.jpg

That's because NASA copied (with some improvement) the Soviet Spiral design
when it created the HL-20...

Do you mean improvements like not having to slide along on watermelons in
order to get moving?

George Evans