Space Shuttle Chaos Continues

How can the CEV be 3 years behind schedule when it was only first mooted
last year?

Katipo

"Bob Haller" wrote in message
oups.com...
yeah they only stepped back and worked the problem after it
malfunctioned again

Thats on a critical ONE system....

wonder how many other unexplained troubles are just being ignored

Challenger and columbias lessons havent been effective at all!!

were going to have another accident and nasa management will clearly
be the reason.

The safety boards post loss conclusion.

The trouble appeared on 10 flights before the atlantis loss, but was
listed as a unexplained anomaloy, and not fixed. looking back it was
clearly a problem just like challengers O rings and columbias foam
loss.

The underlying problem was managements schedule push to get as many
flights in before the 2010 end date. In retrospect this safety imposed
date made the program less safe.

At thois point politicians tired of costs, deaths and endless delays
since the CEV is nearly 3 years behind schedule will remove manned from
NASA charter.

sadly we are setting ourselves up for this one today

"Katipo" wrote in message
...
How can the CEV be 3 years behind schedule when it was only first mooted
last year?

Katipo

"Bob Haller" wrote in message
oups.com...
At thois point politicians tired of costs, deaths and endless delays
since the CEV is nearly 3 years behind schedule will remove manned from
NASA charter.

It's Bob Haller, enough said. Killfile him and be done with him.

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

"Katipo" wrote in message
...

At thois point politicians tired of costs, deaths and endless delays
since the CEV is nearly 3 years behind schedule will remove manned from
NASA charter.


It seems to me that it would be a better idea to remove NASA from the
charter and give the job to someone who can do it!

There is no denying that NASA is a soft target for politicians wanting to
score quick points by attacking Government spending. Nevertheless you
have to seriously wonder if they (NASA) really are the right people for
the job.

Katipo


There is no denying that NASA has problems. But taking away their charter
is probably not an option at this point. Even if you did, and gave it to
someone else (who that would be escapes me)the people who work at NASA
would likely end up being hired by whoever you found to replace them, so
you'd end up with many of the same people doing the work. I just don't see
your suggestion as a viable solution.

George

History has taught us that for thousands of years humans have engaged
in exploration to scientifically answer questions about the world and
universe in which we live. Exploration requires construction of new
technology and new ways of travel, for which a strong leader is
required to seek large funds to accomplish such a task. The
development U.S. rockets and the original space exploration vehicles
were achieved under the strong leadership Dr. Werhner Von Braun. But
both our nations rocketry fathers Dr. Von Braun, and Dr. Goddard
required funding from the military, and so both struggled with
maintaining the scientific integrity of their respective projects, with
military secrecy. The culmination of Von Braun's success and strong
leadership was the mighty Saturn program, the pinnacle of our nations
early space exploration successes. But by 1969 Dr. Von Braun was
discouraged as he was departing and the next generation of leadership,
was seeking the funds from congress to develop the next generation
projects, the space shuttle, space station.

History of rocketry & space travel Von Braun & Ordway third revised
edition 1975, page 287 col 2 par 3
"Henry the navigator would have been hard put had he been requested
to justify his actions on a rational basis, or to predict the payoff or
cost effectiveness of his program of exploration."

We are at a crossroads for the nation's space program, as the space
shuttle is being decommissioned, and we are transitioning to the next
generation space vehicle. Currently the nation lacks the strong
leadership in public, nasa, congress, and administration to develop the
next generation space vehicle. Dr. Von Braun's concern for what he
saw as a waning public interest in the nation's space program has
been correct as proven over the past 30 years. Scientific goals, not
promises of cost savings must be the basis for our nation's space
exploration efforts, as many discoveries are accidental, and profits
will not be realized for years after initial funding. This nation
needs the strong leadership to once again bring together thousands of
gifted people, and billions of dollars for development of our next
space exploration vehicle, or history will never forgive us.
Tom

It's Bob Haller, enough said. Killfile him and be done with him.

Jeff


so jeff and everyone if the next shuttle is lost to another management
screw up what do you think will happen to nasa and manned space?

Bob Haller wrote:
It's Bob Haller, enough said. Killfile him and be done with him.

Jeff


so jeff and everyone if the next shuttle is lost to another management
screw up what do you think will happen to nasa and manned space?

What I am starting to find funny is even though the flight rate keeps
getting cut, and cut and cut you keep saying another shuttle will be
lost. I suspect if the flight rate were cut down to five flights you'd
be singing the same song.

"Skylon" wrote in message
ups.com...

Bob Haller wrote:
It's Bob Haller, enough said. Killfile him and be done with him.

Jeff


so jeff and everyone if the next shuttle is lost to another management
screw up what do you think will happen to nasa and manned space?

What I am starting to find funny is even though the flight rate keeps
getting cut, and cut and cut you keep saying another shuttle will be
lost. I suspect if the flight rate were cut down to five flights you'd
be singing the same song.

I'm sure he will.

In my opinion, saying that the next accident will end the shuttle program is
kind of silly, since it's clear now that there is already an end date. Even
if there isn't an accident between now and 2010, the program will still come
to an end. These last few shuttle flights to "finish" ISS are just the last
gasp of the clearly dying shuttle program, just as Skylab and ASTP were the
last dying gasps of Apollo.

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

Achievement of the space station was implicitly placed on the space
shuttle fleet, and therefore public expectations and disappointment in
lagging construction have led to public frustration with the space
shuttle program. Congress and the public have exerted pressure to
deliver scientific and commercial discoveries in justification of space
station funding, but never completely funded the orbiter fleet and
space station and therefore the station and shuttles have been caught
in a stage of limbo. The public especially "this groups members"
should understand the quandary the space shuttle program has been
placed in by external forces, for instance the public outcry to retire
the orbiter fleet now or without the completion of space station
construction as set out in the late 90's. The orbiter fleet has
performed wonderfully, we have failed it. The shuttle fleet requires
maintenance just like any other vehicle, we just need to be committed
to take care of it, and otherwise failure of the system is our fault
not the systems. Making unrealistic promises and therefore raising
expectations has led to public pressure on the orbiter fleet to
complete a project, without providing enough money. The public or
taxpayers will never realize all of the benefits from their investment
if the orbiter fleet is prematurely retired and station construction
halted, or scaled down. The concept of making the orbiter fleet bear
the burden of "peoples" failure to fully fund projects, and
maintain the fleet sets a fate for us to repeat mistakes of the past no
matter what the program, the cev included.
tom

Jeff Findley wrote:
"Skylon" wrote in message
ups.com...

Bob Haller wrote:
It's Bob Haller, enough said. Killfile him and be done with him.

Jeff


so jeff and everyone if the next shuttle is lost to another management
screw up what do you think will happen to nasa and manned space?

What I am starting to find funny is even though the flight rate keeps
getting cut, and cut and cut you keep saying another shuttle will be
lost. I suspect if the flight rate were cut down to five flights you'd
be singing the same song.

I'm sure he will.

In my opinion, saying that the next accident will end the shuttle program is
kind of silly, since it's clear now that there is already an end date. Even
if there isn't an accident between now and 2010, the program will still come
to an end. These last few shuttle flights to "finish" ISS are just the last
gasp of the clearly dying shuttle program, just as Skylab and ASTP were the
last dying gasps of Apollo.

Jeff


Jeff MY PINT is was, if we have another accident between now and the
end date the program is as dead as the astronauts of columbia and
challenger. even a realtively minor accident like skidding off a
runway, thats it POOF GONE, whatever remains intact will be museum
material the next day.

sadly I believe RTF means another accident Just look at management
pushing workers too hard. Multiple accidents and one never knows, in
the flight prep completeed so far might be the next accident cause.....

Jeff Findley wrote:
"Skylon" wrote in message
ups.com...

Bob Haller wrote:
It's Bob Haller, enough said. Killfile him and be done with him.

Jeff


so jeff and everyone if the next shuttle is lost to another management
screw up what do you think will happen to nasa and manned space?

What I am starting to find funny is even though the flight rate keeps
getting cut, and cut and cut you keep saying another shuttle will be
lost. I suspect if the flight rate were cut down to five flights you'd
be singing the same song.

I'm sure he will.

In my opinion, saying that the next accident will end the shuttle program is
kind of silly, since it's clear now that there is already an end date. Even
if there isn't an accident between now and 2010, the program will still come
to an end. These last few shuttle flights to "finish" ISS are just the last
gasp of the clearly dying shuttle program, just as Skylab and ASTP were the
last dying gasps of Apollo.

Jeff


Jeff MY POINT is was, if we have another accident between now and the
end date the program is as dead as the astronauts of columbia and
challenger. even a realtively minor accident like skidding off a
runway, thats it POOF GONE, whatever remains intact will be museum
material the next day.

sadly I believe RTF means another accident Just look at management
pushing workers too hard. Multiple accidents and one never knows, in
the flight prep completeed so far might be the next accident cause.....