Star of Bethlehem

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 08:39:29 -0800, "Mij Adyaw" wrote:

It seems to me that you may have had a bad experience with Christianity. You
should try to find a good Christian Church. Hopefully, one day you will
understand the importance of the birth of Jesus and what he has done and is
currently doing for the world.

You don't need to have had a bad experience with Christianity to choose
other beliefs. Indeed, understanding the significance of the birth of
Jesus is itself an excellent reason to look elsewhere for spiritual
fulfillment.

Merry Christmas and Best Regards,

And Happy Holidays to you, too.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Mij Adyaw wrote:
Paul,

It seems to me that you may have had a bad experience with Christianity. You
should try to find a good Christian Church. Hopefully, one day you will
understand the importance of the birth of Jesus and what he has done and is
currently doing for the world.

No problem with what Jesus tried to do with the world (near as we know).
The problem has been what his followers have done and continue to do
in his name. Of course the Bible is so jacked up with respect to what
really happened, that there's no real telling, but I guess that falls
into things done in his name.

Shawn

wrote in
oups.com:

Any celestial event that is assigned a 'meaning' (beyond physics) is
within the realm of ancient astrology. Astronomy is 'observation' and
astrology is 'interpretation'.

The myth of the Magi and the Star of Bethlehem is just that. Reading the
account reveals that the Magi did not follow a "star" to Bethlehem to see
the baby Jesus, but that the event happened at least two years later, and
that they were led to Nazareth. The Magi were not wise men led by some
heavenly spectre, but were pagan astronomers who were led by some sort of
apparition. They were warned in a dream not to return to Herod, for he was
seeking to kill all the Jewish males born in the last 2 years. The so
called Christians of today can't even get the account right by reading
their own Bibles. In fact, they can't even get Jesus' skin color right.

Jesus was not born on December 25. He was born while the shepherds were
still in the fields, which leaves early November as the latest posssible
date. Such is still the case in that part of the world.

There are plenty of accounts of apparitions in our own modern times.
Science can't explain them, but there is little doubt that they exist. They
may exist only in the minds of those who claim to see and feel them, or
they may be the work of powers that many don't understand. However, there
are too many eyewitness accounts of these kinds of events events to totally
discount them.

In article bwDmf.277$z21.225@fed1read04, Mij Adyaw wrote:
bm "Paul Schlyter" wrote in message
...
In article QSamf.136$z21.131@fed1read04, Mij Adyaw wrote:

So the Star of Bethlehem was..... a made-up story, to try to make the
birth of Jesus seem Really Important. Sorry.

The birth of Jesus was extremely important. Some day, you will realize
that importance.

Nah - the important event here wasn't the birth of Jesus. The
important event was the decision by the Roman Empire to make
Christianity its State Religion. Without that, Christianity would
probably have been an extinct religion today, and some other religion
(islam?) would have become the dominant religion in the western world.
Or perhaps Christianity would have been one among the many branches of
"New Age" - these people enjoy trying to revive extinct religions...

Paul,

It seems to me that you may have had a bad experience with Christianity.
You should try to find a good Christian Church. Hopefully, one day you
will understand the importance of the birth of Jesus and what he has
done and is currently doing for the world.

You might as well say: "It seems to me that you may have had a bad
experience with Islam. You should try to find a good Moslem Mosque.
Hopefully, one day you will understand the importance of the
revelation of Mohammed and what he has done and is currently doing
for the world."

Or: "It seems to me that you may have had a bad experience with
Buddhism. You should try to find a good Buddhist Temple. Hopefully,
one day you will understand the importance of the enlightedment of
the Buddha and what he has done and is currently doing for the world."

Merry Christmas and Best Regards,

-mij

Happy Holidays to you too.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/

In article ,
Jay Swartzfeger wrote:

In article bwDmf.277$z21.225@fed1read04, "Mij Adyaw"
wrote:

Paul,

It seems to me that you may have had a bad experience with Christianity. You
should try to find a good Christian Church. Hopefully, one day you will
understand the importance of the birth of Jesus and what he has done and is
currently doing for the world.

I prefer to not throw pearls before the swine, so to speak, particularly
in a place like s.a.a. I think it's safe to assume most here are older,
well-educated and rooted in their core beliefs/non-beliefs.

--
Jay Swartzfeger
http://www.swartzfeger.com
Scottsdale, AZ

Actually, I do have one problem with a number of Christians: their
self-righteousness. E.g. the kind you show here when you refer to us
non-believers as "swine" ....

--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/

To Mj

I am a Christian and I know that a person who cannot appreciate the
tenets of Christ and Christianity also cannot appreciate celestial
phenomena.The intutive faculty which appreciates both comes as a gift
rather than a choice.

Any person can be a cataloguer,buy a telescope and a tracking device(
to negate the Earth's motions ) but not all cataloguers are astronomers
and especially in this dour era.If they were astronomers who had a feel
and love for the material they would neither do what they do or say
what they say,by imposing nonsense on our astronomical/priestly
ancestors just so they can make themselves look good.To be an
astronomer is not a choice but a gift in the same way there is a
difference between the denominational Christian (and I am one) and that
moment in time when Christianity through inheritance transforms to an
entirely intimate form of Christianity.*

Miserable people like Schlyter imagine faith is a political game and
indeed denominational Christianity more than helps this fool come to
that conclusion however even in times like this where denominational
Christianity has disgraced itself,the core community still carries that
Spirit that binds the community to each other .We act as individuals
sometimes for the creative instincts emerge that way and Christianity
allied to Western civilisation for so long complimented each other by
facilitating the ground for creative and investigative endeavors but
ultimately the whole civilisation relies on that balance between
individual creative instincts and the civilisation which contains it.

That balance was lost to empiricism,it now shows up in the anonymous
consensus which no longer can produce a figurehead or a hero.It now
announces its presence as 'scientists say' or 'modern science says' and
in the absense of anything worthwhile from this mediocre breed,humanity
looks for its heroes elsewhere in sport or music.That they condemn
themselves to mediocrity is fine but their pretension in being
astronomers while ruining the great astronomical insights that come
under their supervision is horrible and that they condemn the rest of
humanity to following after their tepid astronomical leaning which do
not rise above an exercise in optics is even worse.

Real Christians celebrate their faith,I can do it by showing that these
festering corpses such as Schlyter never really represented astronomy
or astronomers,not because they are wrong but because they are as
mediocre and the tenets they follow.










* "But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of
God, to those who believe in his name, who were born not by natural
generation nor by human choice nor by a man's decision but of God"

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john1.htm

On 11 Dec 2005 05:10:45 -0800, "oriel36"
wrote:

I am a Christian and I know that a person who cannot appreciate the
tenets of Christ and Christianity also cannot appreciate celestial
phenomena...

Thanks Gerald. I needed a good laugh this morning, and that one kept me
rolling on the floor for a while!

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Don't take my word for it ,try Kepler -

"To set down in books the apparent paths of the planets [viasplanetarum

apparentes] and the record of their motions is especially the task of
the practical and mechanical part of astronomy; to discover their true
and genuine path [vias vero veras et genuinas] is . . .the task of
contemplative astronomy; while to say by what circle and lines correct
images of those true motions may be depicted on paper is the concern of

the inferior tribunal of geometers" Kepler

The empricists convinced your breed that you were real astronomers when
you are little more than celestial bookeepers,normally that is O.K. as
long as you do not squeeze out real astronomers .

The good news is that the Copernican insight blossoms in the internet
medium and highlights the miserable state tis great insight was
subjected to since cataloguers and empirical theorists struck up a cozy
if destructive relationship.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html

While you are on the floor as usual and rolling around,be sure to have
a good laugh at the corrupt Newtonian resolution for retrogrades in
contrast the enjoyable explanation given with the time lapse footage
above -

"For to the earth they [ planetary motions] appear sometimes direct,
sometimes stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun
they are always seen direct.."

http://members.tripod.com/~gravitee/phaenomena.htm

A Christian who is not good enough to spot the difference between the
original exquisite Copernican reasoning that infers heliocentricity
and the corrupt Newtonian reasoning does not deserve to call themselves
either an astronomer or a Christian,at least after making an effort to
becoming familiar with the difference.Your sole claim to fame as an
'astronomer' relies on squeezing out contemplative astronomy or
Copernican heliocentric astronomy and its Keplerian/Roemerian
refinements.

For those who are Christians and who never really were familiar with
how heliocentricity and the arrangement of planets around the Sun is
derived by Copernicus then the explanation in that website is more
than adequate notwithstanding that the Newtonian conception will look
like rubbish and offensive.

Roll on the floor sunshine as that is your proper state.

In article ,
(Paul Schlyter) wrote:

I prefer to not throw pearls before the swine, so to speak, particularly
in a place like s.a.a. I think it's safe to assume most here are older,
well-educated and rooted in their core beliefs/non-beliefs.

--
Jay Swartzfeger
http://www.swartzfeger.com
Scottsdale, AZ

Actually, I do have one problem with a number of Christians: their
self-righteousness. E.g. the kind you show here when you refer to us
non-believers as "swine" ....

That's why I said 'so to speak' -- I was simply quoting a scripture that
basically means don't bother people with something they clearly do not
want to hear.

The other funny thing about some non-Christians is how they're quick to
assign the 'self-righteous' label to Christians -- I could really give a
**** what happens to your soul, Paul.

--
Jay Swartzfeger
http://www.swartzfeger.com
Scottsdale, AZ

In article ,
Jay Swartzfeger wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Schlyter) wrote:

I prefer to not throw pearls before the swine, so to speak, particularly
in a place like s.a.a. I think it's safe to assume most here are older,
well-educated and rooted in their core beliefs/non-beliefs.

--
Jay Swartzfeger
http://www.swartzfeger.com
Scottsdale, AZ

Actually, I do have one problem with a number of Christians: their
self-righteousness. E.g. the kind you show here when you refer to us
non-believers as "swine" ....

That's why I said 'so to speak' -- I was simply quoting a scripture that
basically means don't bother people with something they clearly do not
want to hear.

....and it also implies that those who don't want to hear it are somehow
inferior .... and will end up in hell, tortured forever..... nice
scriptures, eh? :-)

The other funny thing about some non-Christians is how they're quick to
assign the 'self-righteous' label to Christians -- I could really give a
**** what happens to your soul, Paul.

So you want increased competition to the limited number of places
(wasn't it 144,000 according to Revelation?) in heaven? :-)

Let me worry about my 'soul' myself -- you don't need to concern
yourself about it. Make youre you yourself will be among those
selected 144,000 instead. This will console yourself during life,
and after death, if your mind and soul both would vanish along with
the disintegration of your body, you won't suffer. Yep, that's the
very purpose of religion: to console humans when they face the fact
of their own death in the (near or far) future.

--
Jay Swartzfeger
http://www.swartzfeger.com
Scottsdale, AZ
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/