EOR with Stick

Tom Cuddihy wrote:
As for crew and cargo, the crew will already
have just completed a ride atop tens of tons
of such propellant - and will be docking to more
tens of tons of it, so a few more tons shouldn't
matter as long as good safeties and escape
options are available.

- Ed Kyle

yes, except for it goes directly against what Griffen has testified
multiple times to Congress, that crew should be separated from cargo.

After Challenger, satellite payloads were gradually
transitioned off shuttle to be launched by expendable
boosters. The thinking was that, since shuttle had
turned out to be more hazardous than originally
believed, anything that could be launch without
a crew, should. The effect was to vastly cut the
total number of shuttle missions. Consider that
before Challenger one of the biggest shuttle jobs was
going to be launch of the GPS satellite constellation!

But of course, crew and "cargo" (stuff in the
shuttle payload pay) have flown together on every
single space shuttle flight since Challenger, and
this will happen during the CEV era to some extent.
Even if CEV is designed to be launched by itself,
on a launcher trimmed down so much that mission
managers will never be able to figure out how to
carry anything extra up with the crew, it will dock
to "cargo" in earth orbit, from where it will be
"launched", connected to "cargo" (propellant and
upper stage hardware, and maybe to a lander, habs,
and experiments, etc.), toward the Moon or Mars.

As for the launching of transfer propellant with
a crewed CEV, I have to admit that the post-
Challenger NASA culture will find itself naturally
opposed to a mission architecture of this type
without really asking "why?". If an escape system
can be made to effectively "separate" crew and
cargo, even when flown together, I have to ask
"why not"?

- Ed Kyle

As for the launching of transfer propellant with
a crewed CEV, I have to admit that the post-
Challenger NASA culture will find itself naturally
opposed to a mission architecture of this type
without really asking "why?". If an escape system
can be made to effectively "separate" crew and
cargo, even when flown together, I have to ask
"why not"?

- Ed Kyle

Fair enough, but I think the cost of failure of this architecture is
far greater than the cost of simply one extra cargo launch.

Rand Simberg wrote:
On 13 Jul 2005 14:18:17 -0700, in a place far, far away, "Ed Kyle"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a
way as to indicate that:

Tom Cuddihy wrote:
As for crew and cargo, the crew will already
have just completed a ride atop tens of tons
of such propellant - and will be docking to more
tens of tons of it, so a few more tons shouldn't
matter as long as good safeties and escape
options are available.

- Ed Kyle

yes, except for it goes directly against what Griffen has testified
multiple times to Congress, that crew should be separated from cargo.

After Challenger, satellite payloads were gradually
transitioned off shuttle to be launched by expendable
boosters. The thinking was that, since shuttle had
turned out to be more hazardous than originally
believed, anything that could be launch without
a crew, should. The effect was to vastly cut the
total number of shuttle missions. Consider that
before Challenger one of the biggest shuttle jobs was
going to be launch of the GPS satellite constellation!

But of course, crew and "cargo" (stuff in the
shuttle payload pay) have flown together on every
single space shuttle flight since Challenger, and
this will happen during the CEV era to some extent.

Yes, this whole notion about it somehow being unsafe to mix crew and
cargo is really quite brainless.

when did common sense enter our space policy?

On 13 Jul 2005 14:18:17 -0700, in a place far, far away, "Ed Kyle"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a
way as to indicate that:

Tom Cuddihy wrote:
As for crew and cargo, the crew will already
have just completed a ride atop tens of tons
of such propellant - and will be docking to more
tens of tons of it, so a few more tons shouldn't
matter as long as good safeties and escape
options are available.

- Ed Kyle

yes, except for it goes directly against what Griffen has testified
multiple times to Congress, that crew should be separated from cargo.

After Challenger, satellite payloads were gradually
transitioned off shuttle to be launched by expendable
boosters. The thinking was that, since shuttle had
turned out to be more hazardous than originally
believed, anything that could be launch without
a crew, should. The effect was to vastly cut the
total number of shuttle missions. Consider that
before Challenger one of the biggest shuttle jobs was
going to be launch of the GPS satellite constellation!

But of course, crew and "cargo" (stuff in the
shuttle payload pay) have flown together on every
single space shuttle flight since Challenger, and
this will happen during the CEV era to some extent.

Yes, this whole notion about it somehow being unsafe to mix crew and
cargo is really quite brainless.