Man, now *this* one's got me smiling....

On Sun, 2 May 2004 18:25:44 -0700, "Mike Walsh"
wrote:

I don't know how true that is and Nazi use of jet fighters came
very late in the war. Most of them were shot down by allied
fighter craft lurking near German airfields. The jets returning very
low or gliding in out of fuel were easy targets then.

....Which is exactly how Yaeger scored his 262 kill.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote in message . ..
http://www.starshipmodeler.org/galle...mox_junior.jpg

..For some reason I've never even *thought* about doing Shuttles in
military attack colors :-(

OM



I remember in the late 70's and early 80's the Washington DC area IPMS
chapter had a group build of 1/144 Orbiters. Quite a few were done up
in airline markings and I remember one was painted in FedEx livery. Ah
yes the early days of shuttle mania...

Gene DiGennaro
Baltimore Md.USA

Mike Walsh wrote:

After the war, I read that one of the first indications of the
use of jet fighters by the Nazis was that there was an increase of
the loss rate of Mosquitos because the jets were able to easily
overtake it.


One of the few other aircraft that they used that had a reasonable
chance of catching a Mosquito was the He-219 "Uhu" (Owl) night fighter.

Pat

OM wrote:

...Which is exactly how Yaeger scored his 262 kill.


And why trying to shoot down an Me-262 near it's airfield was a real
good way to get jumped by a FW-190D; who would be keeping an eye peeled
for anyone trying it.

Pat

On 3 May 2004 07:36:59 -0700, (Gene
DiGennaro) wrote:

I remember in the late 70's and early 80's the Washington DC area IPMS
chapter had a group build of 1/144 Orbiters. Quite a few were done up
in airline markings and I remember one was painted in FedEx livery.

....I've seen those before. In fact, it's sort of where I think I got
the idea for bugging David Sander to convert his meshes for his VBE to
3DS format so I could reskin it with a FedEx one. If he'll ever
concede to do it, I've also got one in mind painted in UPS colors with
a lot of weathering and at least one leg bent from incompetent pilots.


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

On Sat, 01 May 2004 03:28:11 -0600, OM
om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org
wrote:

http://www.starshipmodeler.org/galle...mox_junior.jpg

..For some reason I've never even *thought* about doing Shuttles in
military attack colors :-(

Did you see the Orbiter paint jobs in Air & Space a while back? I
think there were about forty of them, on a poster.

Here's a page with one of them:
http://www.champlaincollege.qc.ca/kbaszk/MixedMD.htm

I just spent about an hour looking and couldn't find any more about
this, although I'm sure it's out there somewhere. Air&Space included
a copy of the poster, as I recall.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

On Mon, 03 May 2004 12:47:29 -0600, OM
om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org
wrote:

On 3 May 2004 07:36:59 -0700, (Gene
DiGennaro) wrote:

I remember in the late 70's and early 80's the Washington DC area IPMS
chapter had a group build of 1/144 Orbiters. Quite a few were done up
in airline markings and I remember one was painted in FedEx livery.

...I've seen those before. In fact, it's sort of where I think I got
the idea for bugging David Sander to convert his meshes for his VBE to
3DS format so I could reskin it with a FedEx one. If he'll ever
concede to do it, I've also got one in mind painted in UPS colors with
a lot of weathering and at least one leg bent from incompetent pilots.


OM


How about using the first package express livery? Before UPS and FedEx
there was REA (Railway Express Agency). It carried rail, truck and air
express packages from 1918 until 1975.

http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pi...ational_ad.jpg

http://www.oct-net.ne.jp/~white-h/no...s/newpage1.htm

http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article?eu=401717


An all green shuttle with a red diamond seal. Yuk! ;-)

- Rusty Barton

In article ,
"Mike Walsh" writes:

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...

Actually, DH
(Great Britain) seems to have never quite caught on to getting
monoplane airliners quite right)


But boy could they make ugly biplane ones....did you ever notice how
much the fuselage on the H.P. 42 looks like that of a B-52?:
http://www.geo-davison.demon.co.uk/HP42.jpg

The Mosquitos also flew as singles, not in large formations that were
much easier to detect, easier to track, and which eliminated the
ability of single aircraft to maneuver to evade attack.

So. Not stealthy, just swift and devious. (And pretty danged good at
that).


IIRC, it had the lowest loss rate of any W.W. II combat aircraft.

Pat


After the war, I read that one of the first indications of the
use of jet fighters by the Nazis was that there was an increase of
the loss rate of Mosquitos because the jets were able to easily
overtake it.

There was an increase in Mosquito _attacks_, (Which were actually
anticipated well before - After the German Jet Program was discovered
in mid '43, the Photo Recon folks found them fairly easy to track. (A
training run on the airfield the Gloster was using for Meteor tests
showed a distinctive pattern left on the runways by the jet's
exhaust. The Photo Interpreter who was processing the cover recalled
seeing the same sorts of marks at some German fields, and inquired
about what could have casued them. After that, one of the RAF Photo
Recon Unit's tasks was keeping the jet census up to date.)
While an Me 262 had the Mosquito beat for straightline speed, at the
altitudes that they normally operated, the Mosquitoes had mode excess
power, and could out-turn and out-climb the jets.
Mosquito losses did increase, but not by much. There never were many
jets in service.

I don't know how true that is and Nazi use of jet fighters came
very late in the war. Most of them were shot down by allied
fighter craft lurking near German airfields. The jets returning very
low or gliding in out of fuel were easy targets then.

Well, the idea there is to catch the jet while it's slow, either
taking off or landing, and use superior thrust/weight of the propeller
driven fighters below, oh, 'bout 300 mph to hold and maintain the
advantage. Jet engines produce constant Thrust (More or less).
Piston Engines produce Constant Power. (More or less) Horsepower =
Thrust * Velocity. So, at low speeds, a jet isn't producing much
power, and at high speeds, a prop isn't producing much thrust.

The upshot is, if you catch a jet low & slow, if can't maneuver well,
or accelerate away.

It's not just for the early jets, either. In the early 1960s, when
the F-4 Phantom II was new, somebody thought that a fitting
demonstration of the New Super Jet was to have one peerforma slow pass
in company with an A-1 Skyraider. (The Navy's last piston Aftack
Airplane - basically a Big Honkin' single-engine airplane with a Big
Honkin' 2700 HP Wright R3350 in front. They dated from 1945, and by
1962 were considered ancient, and were referred to as SPADs.) The
Spad Driver felt ill-used by this stunt, and as he formated on the
F-4, he kept an eye on the Afterburner Nozzles of teh jet. When he
saw the nozzles begin to open, he shoved the throttle through to War
Emergency Power. The F-4 eventually did pull ahead, booming off into
the Stratosphere, and bombing back at something over Mach One, but the
Airshow Crowd (And the Admirals present), were trated to the sight of
the Olde Spad holding even with the Fire Belching F-4 all the way past
the viewing stands.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

On Mon, 03 May 2004 17:42:20 -0700, Rusty Barton
wrote:

An all green shuttle with a red diamond seal. Yuk! ;-)

....Considering the shade of green, it would look more like something
the Soviet military commissioned :-P

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

On Sat, 01 May 2004 03:28:11 -0600, OM
om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org
wrote:

....For some reason I've never even *thought* about doing Shuttles in
military attack colors :-(


Yeah, that is different.




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