A Sad Story and a Warning to All

In message , Alan
writes

"Jonathan Silverlight" wrote
in message ...
In message , Jo
writes
In ,
Stuart M typed:


One more thing. Someone on here was asking about cheap places for
silicon gel about a year ago. I nearly offered you some of this!

That was me.

From your description it was almost certainly sodium hydroxide...caustic
soda.

Just to reassure Stuart, I've never heard of sodium hydroxide being used
as a drying agent - there are many safer materials. Corrections welcomed,
of course.
My first guess when I read his account was that it was anhydrous sodium
sulfate, but calcium chloride makes more sense and will dissolve into a
puddle in its own juice as soon as your back is turned!
BTW, silica gel, at least the blue self-indicating type, is under a cloud
at the moment because the indicator (cobalt chloride) is a suspected
carcinogen.
Nice to see my day job is useful!

Crumbs ..... I remember my parents had a novelty ceramic ornament that was
covered in cobalt chloride (think it was a dog which supposedly showed when
it was going to rain........) and I'm sure my childhood chemistry set (about
30 years ago) had me making such things by dissolving the stuff in water and
soaking filter paper in it and letting it dry.



That takes me back! I'm fairly sure my parents had the same sort of
thing. Probably worth a bit now, if it's not too hideous. But don't
worry about it. The cancer bogeyman is just that, in most cases. I would
happily use self-indicating silica gel if I needed it, being careful not
to get any dust on me - or breathe it.
The cancer bogeyman is just that, in most cases.

"Alan" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Crumbs ..... I remember my parents had a novelty ceramic ornament that was
| covered in cobalt chloride (think it was a dog which supposedly showed
when
| it was going to rain........) and I'm sure my childhood chemistry set
(about
| 30 years ago) had me making such things by dissolving the stuff in water
and
| soaking filter paper in it and letting it dry.
|

I had a childhood chemistry set in the late 1960s. I think almost every
experiment in it is now illegal under H&S legislation. Favourite reagents
were copper sulphate and potassium permanganate - both of which are now
frowned upon and the latter you might be lucky to get your hands on at all
in a school chemistry lab these days. I can remember "open days" at my
secondary school and sixth form college in the mid 1970s when we did some
very entertaining experiments for parents and visitors. These were quite
legal at the time but would probably now earn the teachers custodial
sentences for permitting.

But then science was fun and yet very few of us died (certainly far less
than were killed on the roads travelling to and from school). Now, science
is boring as all the fun experiments are illegal; and if there are no new
scientists coming through due to lack of interest then we are all in
trouble.
--
- Yokel -
oo oo
OOO OOO
OO 0 OO
) ( I ) (
) ( /\ ) (

"Yokel" now posts via a spam-trap account.
Replace my alias with stevejudd to reply.

Just like to thank you all for your help. I'm amazed how many chemists are
in this group!

I have spent most of the evening washing, soaking and rinsing various parts
of the scope. I have now given it (and a cut on my hand, ouch) a lemon juice
bath. Its now rinsing again.
I tried putting the screws back and they are very hard to screw in. I think
the holes are a bit corroded. I think I will need to send it away for
re-tapping of the screwholes and to remove the broken screw.
I have taken the entire tube off now. I want to make sure I clean it
properly this time.
I only hope that none of this stuff has got behind the mirror and into the
focuser. I should probably have a look but am not too keen on removing that
lot. I'll have to do some research and see how difficult this would be.
I have been thinking about who to send this off to. I do remember that a
member of this group does engineering work so I might ask for a quote from
him. If anyone has any recommendations I would be grateful.

Thanks again for all you help.

Stuart

..
"Stuart M" wrote in message
...
I feel rather embarassed to tell this story but I guess we all make
mistakes and if it stops anyone else from making the same one then it will
be worth it.

Deep breath

I am the owner of a 9.25 inch SCT. A rather nice and expensive (for me)
piece of equipment.

I haven't been using it much in the last couple of years, since moving
into a flat, so it's been packed away. I also used to own a boat, and when
I bought it, there was a sealed tub of something called "Moisture Trap" in
the bilge. "Must be silica gel" thinks I. "Great, I'll use this for
keeping my telescope nice and dry in storage". So I put some in a couple
of film cannisters (with a few pinholes in) and put one in my eyepiece
case and one in my telescope box. The telscope was also wrapped in a
dustbin bag for safe measure and the bag was sealed at the top with duct
tape. There were no holes in this bag.

A few months later, I opened my eyepiece case and found that there was
fluid inside, all soaked down through the foam. The film cannister just
had a gloopy mess inside. It had attracted enough water to dissolve itself
and then some! Luckily, the way the case was placed, this mess hadn't come
into contact with any eyepieces so I took them all out, removed the foam
from the case and put it in the washing machine.
Now, onto the scope itself. I opened the box, removed the scope, opened
the black bag and found approx half a pint of water in the bottom (this is
no exageration). My scope was having a bath!
Anyhoo, I took out the scope and found that water had got inside so I
removed the corrector plate (quite a task in itself), wiped it out and
dried it and was happy that I had got it clean. I put it away.

After washing and drying out the foam, I put it back in the case and
closed the case. I thought it better not to put my eyepieces in just in
case. I left it on the spare bed. A couple of days later, there was a
large wet patch on the bed! This "Moisture Trap" is incredible stuff. I
think it was possibly made by Satan. I just cant get rid of it. I decided
it was best to throw away the case.

Today, I took out the scope again and found that the screws holding my
corrector plate in have all corroded. One has broken off in its hole and I
cant get the broken end out. I tried drilling it out but only succeeded in
drilling through to the side of it!
Their are also a few drops of water inside the scope again......

I have taken the ring off the end of the scope (the bit that the corrector
screws into) and have washed it thoroughly. I guess my next step is to get
someone to either get this screw out or drill and tap a new hole next to
it.

I wonder now if I will ever get this scope aligned and working properly
again. I have marked everthing up so it should be a simple matter to
rebuild it. If not, I'm sure someone will be happy to charge me a fortune
to do it.

One more thing. Someone on here was asking about cheap places for silicon
gel about a year ago. I nearly offered you some of this!

Stuart

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 23:14:50 -0000, "Stuart M"
wrote:

Just like to thank you all for your help. I'm amazed how many chemists are
in this group!

I have spent most of the evening washing, soaking and rinsing various parts
of the scope. I have now given it (and a cut on my hand, ouch) a lemon juice
bath. Its now rinsing again.
I tried putting the screws back and they are very hard to screw in. I think
the holes are a bit corroded. I think I will need to send it away for
re-tapping of the screwholes and to remove the broken screw.
I have taken the entire tube off now. I want to make sure I clean it
properly this time.
I only hope that none of this stuff has got behind the mirror and into the
focuser. I should probably have a look but am not too keen on removing that
lot. I'll have to do some research and see how difficult this would be.
I have been thinking about who to send this off to. I do remember that a
member of this group does engineering work so I might ask for a quote from
him. If anyone has any recommendations I would be grateful.

Thanks again for all you help.

Stuart


I can let you have some stainless screws as replacements for the
price of postage (check - should be #6x32 american thread, or about
5/32 if you meaure them). The length I'm not sure of for Celestron but
these are OK for Meade. They are cap-head rather than dome-headed, but
they don't rust :-))
Be careful not to over-tighten them, not much more than finger tight
is about right. The idea is to hold the corrector in place without
distorting it. I hope you marked the orientation of the secondary and
corrector with respect to the tube when you removed it.

ChrisH

"Alan" wrote:

Crumbs ..... I remember my parents had a novelty ceramic ornament that was
covered in cobalt chloride (think it was a dog which supposedly showed when
it was going to rain........) and I'm sure my childhood chemistry set (about
30 years ago) had me making such things by dissolving the stuff in water and
soaking filter paper in it and letting it dry.

Alan - don't worry. By modern safety standards everybody over 50 has
been dead for at least 10 years.

Cheers

Martin

--
Martin Frey
http://www.hadastro.org.uk
N 51 02 E 0 47

"ChrisH" wrote in message
...
I can let you have some stainless screws as replacements for the
price of postage (check - should be #6x32 american thread, or about
5/32 if you meaure them). The length I'm not sure of for Celestron but
these are OK for Meade. They are cap-head rather than dome-headed, but
they don't rust :-))
Be careful not to over-tighten them, not much more than finger tight
is about right. The idea is to hold the corrector in place without
distorting it. I hope you marked the orientation of the secondary and
corrector with respect to the tube when you removed it.

Hello Chris,

Thats very generous of you, thanks.

Im not sure what those numbers relate to exactly but the screws are about
12mm long, 2mm wide and the thread is approx 0.5mm across. I could mail you
one of them if you like.
I use a precision driver so they dont get too tight. They were tight this
time but only because they were corroded into their holes.
I did mark the orientation but the corrector was so hard to remove, I think
the secondary holder may have rotated a bit. What a bloody nightmare this
is. Oh well, it has been nice to get inside it at last! I always wanted to
really.

I've sent you an email.

Regards,

Stuart.

"Stuart M" wrote in message
...

"ChrisH" wrote in message
...
I can let you have some stainless screws as replacements for the
price of postage (check - should be #6x32 american thread, or about
5/32 if you meaure them). The length I'm not sure of for Celestron but
these are OK for Meade. They are cap-head rather than dome-headed, but
they don't rust :-))
Be careful not to over-tighten them, not much more than finger tight
is about right. The idea is to hold the corrector in place without
distorting it. I hope you marked the orientation of the secondary and
corrector with respect to the tube when you removed it.

Hello Chris,

Thats very generous of you, thanks.

Im not sure what those numbers relate to exactly but the screws are about
12mm long, 2mm wide and the thread is approx 0.5mm across. I could mail
you one of them if you like.
I use a precision driver so they dont get too tight. They were tight this
time but only because they were corroded into their holes.

Ive just read through this thread again and Im not sure if Ive been
misunderstood. The screws arent rusted, they were just stuck in their holes.
I think the metal of the corrector mount has reacted with this stuff and
corroded inside the screw hole. (Im just guessing really). Did you think the
screws had rusted?

Jonathan Silverlight
wrote:
(cobalt chloride) is a suspected carcinogen.

Anyone else remember having this stuff in the "Chemistry Set"? Didn't
taste as bad as the copper sulphate g. (Apparently all stuff in
Merkinese chemistry sets now has to be food grade!)

Best,
Stephen

Remove footfrommouth to reply

--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+ Stephen Tonkin | ATM Resources; Astro-Tutorials; Astro Books +
+ (N51.162 E0.995) | http://astunit.com +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Alan - don't worry. By modern safety standards everybody over 50 has
been dead for at least 10 years.

Martin


Confirmation at last! I suppose I had guessed as much when all my hair
fell out and I couldn't look at myself in the mirror..
Can I start going "Woooo woooo wooo" and clanking invisible chains at
my neighbours now?
*
Chris.B Late, as always.

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:16:52 -0000, "Jo"
wrote:

| In ,
| Stuart M typed:
|
|
| One more thing. Someone on here was asking about cheap places for
| silicon gel about a year ago. I nearly offered you some of this!
|
| That was me.
|
| From your description it was almost certainly sodium hydroxide...caustic
| soda. This is a deliquescent solid that will keep on absorbing water, then
| it will dissolve in its own juices, then the concentrated corrosive solution
| will continue to absorb water and increase in volume. It also dissolves skin
| quite effectively and can be used to remove the flesh from bones to make
| cool skeletons. In the home it can be used to unblock drains.
|
| It is a strong alkali and so you might be able to neutralise the remains of
| your telescope and prevent further damage using a dilute acid such as
| vinegar, lemon juice or Cola followed by lots of water to neutralise the
| stuff before attempting a proper cleanup.

This will be difficult because the alkali followed by the mild acid will
get into any screw thread, tiny crack or crevice, and continue working
there. Strip the telescope as far as you are able, and happy that you can
get it back together again. Stripping lenses is *not* a good idea. Others
more experience will be able to advise what can be stripped and what can
not.

--
Dave Fawthrop
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