Felxibility of Apollo design (was Space station future adrift (Soyuz purchase crisis) )

(Henry Spencer) wrote:

In article ,
Derek Lyons wrote:

There is nothing modular about the Apollo spacecraft. The CSM is a
matched pair always and forever.

Wasn't there some non-trivial thoughts about a light-weight mini-SM for
use with Earth-orbit missions like Skylab?

There was. But substituting a SM late in the game isn't the same as
designing a modular system.

And likewise, designing a modular system which ends up only existing in
one version isn't the same as designing a non-modular system.

sigh It's not like you Henry to not actually read and comprehend
the initial post.

When you do, you note the modularity is defined as 'being able to
leave bits not needed behind', something the Apollo spacecraft is
decidedly not able to do. Whether it's the super-heavy J mission SM,
or the ultra lightweight CRV SM, the CM is wedded always and forever
to a SM.

Note that Owen Maynard, who Kieran was quoting, was there, and you
weren't.

Note that Kieran isn't quoting him, he's giving his impression of
Maynard's reminiscences.

Hint: think of what the M stands for in CM, SM, LM.

Hint: Lacking formal naming terminology, names mean little. Gemini
also had 'modules', but wasn't modular either.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

I've just noticed how nearly everything potentially anti-NASA/Apollo is
either banished and/or stripped out of the MAILGATE archives.

This is a good thing because, you and I know damn good and well there
were never any such R&D prototype landers that ever managed a test drop
and down-range fly-by-rocket controlled flight with any soft landings.
If so we'd have all sorts of affordably nifty instruments deployed upon
the moon, and perhaps of tonnes worth being safely deployed at least
one-way onto the surface of Mars.

Thus far there's not been even a single foot or meter worth of film upon
anything R&D related to those NASA/Apollo landers nor of any AI/robotic
fly-by-rocket landers from them nice Russians, and as of today they
still haven't managed squat in such AI/robotic landers to work with, and
we can't seem to manage keeping the V22 Osprey in the air.

Who's kidding whom?

We obviously need to start from scratch and prove the capability as
doable right here on Earth, as easily accommodated by way of cutting out
the necessary mass that'll make those scaled prototype landers
manageable at the 6 fold gravity of Earth. Removing whatever payload and
of other onboard instruments having nothing to do with the fly-by-rocket
functionality, limiting the fuel and oxidiser supply to merely 5 seconds
of decent and offering perhaps as little as 10 seconds worth of
down-range capability should be more than sufficient. Though actually
that's being somewhat overly conservative, as they should be able to
accommodate at least twice that capacity and still being under i/6th the
mass of an actual manned lunar lander.

Regards, Brad GUTH / GASA~IEIS http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm


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I have in
front of me right now, a drawing that Owen left me, of the "Radial
"Module All-Rigid Space Station" that one of the draftsment did for him
in 1962; designed to be launched on a Saturn V, using a ciyple of
"6-man ferry-logistics vehicles" docked to it, basically an Apollo
CSM. Owen also prepared (and patented) a design for a trans-Mars space
station based on this design (I think that one was planning on using a
NERVA upper stage to push it out to Mars and back again)---this was
actually released by one of the commercial model companies as a
plastic kid's model in the 1960s, as "NASA's Space Station."


MPC's Pilgrim Observer. One of the best fictional spacecraft kits ever
made.

Gene

wrote in message
oups.com...
MPC's Pilgrim Observer. One of the best fictional spacecraft kits ever
made.

A quick Google search brings up a page with pictures. Very cool looking
design.

http://www.greysteele.com/models/pilgrim.htm

Jeff
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Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

Jeff Findley wrote:

A quick Google search brings up a page with pictures. Very cool looking
design.

http://www.greysteele.com/models/pilgrim.htm

The Apollo in the kit has two odd features- its CM is corrugated on the
exterior like a Mercury or Gemini, and there's a odd depression on the
CM that has a chrome rod set in it.
You can see the modified Apollo on this PDF of the instruction sheet;
it's on page 4, step 11:
http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/model...ns/mpc9001.pdf
The Pilgrim Observer's design has a major problem; there is almost no
propellant on board for the three base-mounted J-2 engines.

Pat