Looking for a good beginner's telescope, suggestions?

Carlos Moreno wrote:

Ask your kid if he knows what the effect of PBC's

AARRRRGHHH!!! I *always* get that acronym wrong!! Make
that PCB!! (I guess it is because I first knew the
acronym in Spanish: BPC, so the C following the P got
set in stone in my mind :-))

Carlos
--

Ask him if he would prefer an EQ mount or a less expensive Alti-azmuth mount,
to see if he knows the diff. If he doesn't a week later, then you'll know to
get a cheapy Al-az department store job.

I disagree...

The point of buying a scope is to educate and provide the child with a tool
that will last. He has already shown a serious interest in the subject,
observing with both binoculars and naked eye.

There is no need to try to judge the interest or understanding prior to
purchase, let the scope do its job.

I say give the child some respect and buy him a real scope, he will more likely
respond than if you buy him something that is marginally adequate.

That's my experience with children... Give a child a toy and they are likely
to respond as if you have given them a toy.

Give a child a serious tool fit for an adult and they will respond likewise.

Jon

Thank you to everyone who chimed in with their thoughts, suggestions,
and opinions. I apologize for not stating a budget on this, but since
several people asked I'm probably looking in the $200 range and under.
I realize this isn't a lot of money to spend and won't buy him
anything great, but I'm rather limited on budget due to medical bills
and being on medical disability. Even $200 is stretching things a
bit, but I want to encourage him in this because he does seem very
interested. I would dearly love to be able to make this a father/son
activity, but after after an accident in the government lab I
work/worked in last year, I am legally blind and don't have enough
visual acuity to see distinct shapes. (And before anyone asks, a
friend is typing this in for me...thank you John. You're very welcome
Mark!) I am a microbiologist by trade and am happy my son is
interested in the sciences. I found the FAQ extremely helpful and we
are doing down to the local library to look for some of the books
recommended in the FAQ. Thank you again for all the suggestions, I
think I'll be able to find a nice scope for him from one of the
companies mentioned.

Oh, by the way, the northern lights were again visible last night in
central Iowa around 8:30. Apparently we had a brief break in cloud
cover and he could see some light to moderate greens. For about five
minutes they were very bright and he set up my camera and got some
shots. We sat out in the baseball field at the old school in our town
for about an hour while he watched them. He was very excited to
finally see them, having missed the previous two nights!


(Mark Roberts) wrote in message . com...
Hi folks! My 12 year old son has been very interested in astronomy
for the past year or so, and has been doing a lot of star gazing with
the naked eye and a decent set of binoculars. I'd like to upgrade him
for Christmas and get him a good beginner's telescope. (My definition
of good would be probably run the middle between price and quality, as
I don't want to go overboard and buy something expensive and then end
up having him not use it!) He's primarily focused on the moon and
constellations before and would like to check out the planets and
maybe other objects further out. Anyone have any suggestions on what
to get him? I would appreciate any information those with more
experience than I could give. Thanks so much! - Mark

Check out telescope.com http://www.hardinoptical.com/
and
http://www.handsonoptics.com/
and DO get a good star atlas, either printed or on a PC (such as Cartes du Ciel
or GUIDE).
I always liked the Field Guide to Stars and Planets, and Norton's, but there
are other good ones at
http://www.willbell.com/

Most DSO's will NOT look like their pictures in books, magazines, and on dept.
store telescope boxes, but there will be the thrill of the chase in finding
some of these elusive fuzzies, as well as the beauty of some of the globulars,
small bright planetaries, and small well-defined galaxies. Go for all the
aperture you can afford (and move around).

Clear, Dark, Steady Skies!
(And considerate neighbors!!!)

Carlos Moreno wrote in message ...
Ken S. Tucker wrote:

Ask him if he would prefer an EQ mount or a less
expensive Alti-azmuth mount, to see if he knows the
diff. If he doesn't a week later, then you'll know
to get a cheapy Al-az department store job.

I totally disagree with this principle...

Ask your kid if he knows what the effect of PBC's are;
probably he won't know and won't be interested... Will
you feed your kid or have your kid around stuff that is
contaminated with PBC's just because he doesn't know or
doesn't care to find out what it is?

Carlos, first time to discuss with you...Hello.
Using a PCB analogy is your idea, not mine.

My suggestions in principle are these,

1) Mark Robert's should talk with his son
to get his Point of View. A typical Dad earning
$30/hour has $25 of that commited so his
discretionary funding may be $5/hour. Spending
an extra $100 on a scope is equal to 20 hours
of labor = 1/2 of a weeks work.

2) Is the son serious, or is he the type that
want's something new every week. Maybe last
month he wanted a $200 microscope, maybe he
has a scuba gear in the basement.

3) You can turn-off an amateur by buying too much,
fit the scope to the person, this is a 12 year old.

Notice that the example/analogy is to illustrate my
disagreement with the principle -- it is not to say that
mounts other than EQ are so bad that could be compared
with carcinogenic substances.

That's way off, were talking about telescopes.
Ken

Carlos
--

Ken:

You wrote:

2) Is the son serious, or is he the type that want's something new every
week.


Please read the story. The son has been using binoculars for a year.

Jon

Alexander Avtanski wrote in message ...
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
(Mark Roberts) wrote in message . com...

Hi folks! My 12 year old son has been very interested in astronomy
for the past year or so, and has been doing a lot of star gazing with
the naked eye and a decent set of binoculars. I'd like to upgrade him
for Christmas and get him a good beginner's telescope. (My definition
of good would be probably run the middle between price and quality, as
I don't want to go overboard and buy something expensive and then end
up having him not use it!) He's primarily focused on the moon and
constellations before and would like to check out the planets and
maybe other objects further out. Anyone have any suggestions on what
to get him? I would appreciate any information those with more
experience than I could give. Thanks so much! - Mark


If you're boy has a good IQ, and takes geometry serious
then ask him if he understands what an "EQuatorial Mount"
is and how it works.
Usually an interest in astronomy is indicative of
high intelligence and spatial understanding.
Ask him if he would prefer an EQ mount or a less
expensive Alti-azmuth mount, to see if he knows the
diff. If he doesn't a week later, then you'll know
to get a cheapy Al-az department store job.
OTOH if a 12 year old can explain to you why an
EQ mount is better, then the geometry lesson alone
for him polarizing an EQ is a cheap lesson.
The scope oughta be a refractor at 60mm or a bit
more, to keep portability. Much larger will be
tough on a 12 year old, and reflectors are less
tolerant of abuse. That'll keep him busy until
next X-mas.
Anyway, talk to him and get back to us about
what he think's he knows. ok?
Regards
Ken S. Tucker

I tend to disagree here on a couple of issues.

First, the EQ mount has both advantages and disadvantages. One
cannot just say "EQ is better", because it is not. I'm not saying
that it is worse, it's just a different beast.

If at 12 years old, if he's intelligent enough to
know the advantages of an EQ mount, then he should
have an EQ mount.

Second, I don't agree with the recommendation for a "60mm or a
bit more" as a first scope. A decent 60mm refractor on an EQ
mount (as proposed) would not be more portable than a decent
small reflector on an alt-az mount. The second will probably
provide much better performance at possibly fraction of the price.

Depends on the boy, performance is not that
important. There's plenty of real good stuff
a 60mm EQ can do, like astro-photography with
a motor accessory.

Just an example is Orion's StarBlast - a 4.5" newtonian, alt-az
tabletop mount (very stable and easy to operate). For $169 you get
an excellent scope that can keep you busy for years. I have this
one and I'm tired of recommending it to people, so this time I
won't, :-) No, seriously, IMHO it's a great scope and beats any
60-70mm entry-level refractor, and some not so "entry-level" ones.

Sure it does, but I'm bet you'd rather
have a motorized EQ mount!

There are several similar scopes to the StarBlast. Any of these
can do and (again IMHO) would be far better than a 60mm refractor.

Ok, going from a 6mm pupil to 60mm or 120mm
is a thrill, and is not as crucial as the mount
if the son understands mounts.

- Alex

Regards
Ken

Carlos Moreno wrote:
Carlos Moreno wrote:

Ask your kid if he knows what the effect of PBC's


AARRRRGHHH!!! I *always* get that acronym wrong!! Make
that PCB!! (I guess it is because I first knew the
acronym in Spanish: BPC, so the C following the P got
set in stone in my mind :-))

Carlos
--

That's OK Carlos, anyway for me PCB means only "Printed
Circuit Board" and this makes as much sense in the context
as "PBC" or "BPC", :-)

- Alex, :-)

Ken S. Tucker wrote:

[ ... ]

If at 12 years old, if he's intelligent enough to
know the advantages of an EQ mount, then he should
have an EQ mount.

Then he is intelligent enough to know the disadvantages of an EQ mount
too. I have a scope on EQ mount and another, smaller on Alt-Az mount.
The Alt-Az mount beats the EQ mount on portability many times over.

Depends on the boy, performance is not that
important. There's plenty of real good stuff
a 60mm EQ can do, like astro-photography with
a motor accessory.

Nobody is talking astrophotography here. For me it's not the same as
looking with your eyes. a 4.5" will show much, much more to the eye
than a 60mm scope.

Sure it does, but I'm bet you'd rather
have a motorized EQ mount!

I have both. I NEED BOTH. The motorized mount is one thing - it is
heavy, needs at least 5 minutes time to be set up. The small scope
on alt-az mount is set in about 30 seconds and for casual observing
I use it more. I cannot go without it. If I have to chose between
the two scopes, I'd still get the bigger one, but it costs about $700,
and the deciding thing for me here would be that it is BIGGER, and
not the EQ mount.

Ok, going from a 6mm pupil to 60mm or 120mm
is a thrill, and is not as crucial as the mount
if the son understands mounts.

Exactly. Now, tell me what kind of GOOD EQ mount you propose to
get for under $200?!

- Alex

(Mark Roberts) wrote in message . com...
Thank you to everyone who chimed in with their thoughts, suggestions,
and opinions. I apologize for not stating a budget on this, but since
several people asked I'm probably looking in the $200 range and under.
I realize this isn't a lot of money to spend and won't buy him
anything great, but I'm rather limited on budget due to medical bills
and being on medical disability. Even $200 is stretching things a
bit, but I want to encourage him in this because he does seem very
interested. I would dearly love to be able to make this a father/son
activity, but after after an accident in the government lab I
work/worked in last year, I am legally blind and don't have enough
visual acuity to see distinct shapes. (And before anyone asks, a
friend is typing this in for me...thank you John. You're very welcome
Mark!) I am a microbiologist by trade and am happy my son is
interested in the sciences. I found the FAQ extremely helpful and we
are doing down to the local library to look for some of the books
recommended in the FAQ. Thank you again for all the suggestions, I
think I'll be able to find a nice scope for him from one of the
companies mentioned.

Oh, by the way, the northern lights were again visible last night in
central Iowa around 8:30. Apparently we had a brief break in cloud
cover and he could see some light to moderate greens. For about five
minutes they were very bright and he set up my camera and got some
shots. We sat out in the baseball field at the old school in our town
for about an hour while he watched them. He was very excited to
finally see them, having missed the previous two nights!


(Mark Roberts) wrote in message . com...
Hi folks! My 12 year old son has been very interested in astronomy
for the past year or so, and has been doing a lot of star gazing with
the naked eye and a decent set of binoculars. I'd like to upgrade him
for Christmas and get him a good beginner's telescope. (My definition
of good would be probably run the middle between price and quality, as
I don't want to go overboard and buy something expensive and then end
up having him not use it!) He's primarily focused on the moon and
constellations before and would like to check out the planets and
maybe other objects further out. Anyone have any suggestions on what
to get him? I would appreciate any information those with more
experience than I could give. Thanks so much! - Mark

This was the first telescope I purchased as an adult coing back into
the hobby ages ago. I now own two other larger, more expensive
telescopes. However, this one is rugged, easy to use and still my
wife's favorite for camping because it is built like a tank. I'm not
kidding about that. Even if he wants to move up to somthing larger
later, he will still find it useful. Optics are pretty good, and the
company is great to work with, and they have provided add ons and
acessories for a long time and will probably continue to do so. It's
$199.99.
Chris
http://scientificsonline.com/product...2001&sid=edsci