Tibet, Taiwan, and Human Suffering

a tradegy yes. Poor comparison though. - 1950s to 1800s

time to grow up and stop sying "what about them" in some kind of child-like
justification.


"Water Barbarian" wrote in message
news:xkrjd.580811$8_6.62430@attbi_s04...
Just like what happened to the American
Indians.

"TK" wrote in message
...
China did exactly that with Tibet & E Turkestan

Hypocrisy - yuk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Water Barbarian" wrote in message
news:u48jd.362199$MQ5.119339@attbi_s52...
It is strange when talking about mature.

Should China invade any neighbouring nations, or bombing
any cities, or sending tanks to a town to prove it is mature
enough?

"John Savard" wrote in message
...
Recently, the documentary "What's Left of Us" about the desperate
plight
of the Tibetan people in their homeland was brought to Edmonton.

Now that taking action to end the long-running tragedy of the Tibetan
people would not trigger a response from the Soviet Union, and given
that although the People's Republic of China has nuclear weapons, its
effective capability of delivering them is limited, the question comes
to mind: why has this sort of thing been allowed to continue?

The Tibetan people wanted no part of China's Cultural Revolution, they
want no part of Communism, and so regardless of whether Tibet had been
under Chinese rule during some portion of Chinese history, why not
just
simply tell China in no uncertain terms to keep its hands off Tibet?

And, of course, Red China also threatens the island of Taiwan - where
a
free Chinese people live as part of our world of civilized, democratic
nations.

Given such events as the terrorist outrage of September 11, 2001 on
the
one hand, and the reckless suicide attack on an American military
airplane over international waters near China on the other, many
lovers
of freedom are concerned that the near future might hold for America a
two-front war, against the world's one billion Muslims on one side,
and
against the world's one billion Chinese on the other.

That certainly is one good reason for the United States to exercise
the
restraint that it has been exercising towards China, and in its war
against terror.

Thus, George W. Bush, despite criticism from John Kerry and others, is
allowing the government of Pakistan to pursue the search for Osama bin
Laden, despite its difficulty, and the importance of bringing him to
justice for the American people, because the alternative of simply
ignoring the wishes of the Pakistani government, and presumably taking
over the rule of a discontented and angry people is disproportionate
to
the value of vengeance. It is difficult, as things are, for him to
organize further terrorist acts, and that will have to be enough for
the
time being.

China may decide yet to invade Taiwan. Should that happen, it is
likely
the U.S. will make as measured and proportionate a response as
possible.
What the U.S. appears to hope for is that Taiwan could do a "one
country, two systems" deal with China to allow the U.S. to wash its
hands of the problem.

But if this cannot happen, and China responds to a U.S. attempt to
frustrate, by conventional means, its invasion of Taiwan, with an
attack
on American cities?

Then there would be war.

And war causes disruption and chaos.

The likely consequence in China would be, to paraphrase Saddam
Hussein,
"the mother of all famines".

It is therefore not surprising that while compassion for human
suffering
moves us to deplore the plight of Tibet, compassion for human
suffering
prevents us from doing the one thing that has any hope of ending that
plight, unseating the present Chinese government by sheer force.

Rather than precipitating a conflict, the United States acts on the
hope
that China will mature and mellow in time on the one hand, and that
terrorism is something unrepresentative of the Islamic world, and can
be
once again reduced to the occasional minor and isolated incident.

But realism demands that we not accept our hopes as facts. Perhaps the
future of humanity on Earth will be bleak, and the United States will
be
overwhelmed by an alliance of the Islamic world and China. Europe, and
the world's other democracies, will need to make very uneasy terms
with
the new order in that case.

And so we have another hope that freedom will survive.

Instead of being preoccupied with war preparations, before the night
falls, it has been proposed that the United States animate its space
program with new vigor, so as to make possible the opening of the
planet
Mars to human settlement.

As the future is uncertain, what better step to take than placing some
free men in a redoubt beyond the reach of tyrants?

Human suffering may be inevitable in a world of people who are driven
to
have children even when they are not certain of being able to feed and
take care of them properly.

If human history can lead to achievements in the arts, in the
sciences,
and in the advance to democracy, then, at least, there will have been
some point to what humanity has suffered. If, on the other hand,
suffering only leads to more and worse suffering, until human
extinction
is achieved, it would all have been tragically pointless.

I hope that as much of humanity as possible will become part of the
opportunity to live as humans should live - in peace, freedom, and
prosperity. But to begin with, we must ensure that in the future, at
least a few humans will live this way, instead of none at all.

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html

One of my fears is that if the US were to invade Cuba, China would almost
immediately invade Taiwan. Our navy would be tied up in Cuba and China
could pretend that there is some kind of moral equivalence.

lid (John Savard) wrote in message ...
Recently, the documentary "What's Left of Us" about the desperate plight
of the Tibetan people in their homeland was brought to Edmonton.

Compared with the other Himalayan states, Nepal, Bhutan and Sikkim,
Tibetans have the highest living standards.
The difference is the Dalai Lama has the funding of CIA while nobody
cares about the 100,000 Bhutanese refugees in Nepal.
Supporting the Dalai Lama fit in with the right winger's agenda
starting a new cold war with China.

If they truely care about the values of human lives they will not be
dropping 1000 pounds bomb in Fallujah at night form 30,000 meters.

Lets use Water Barbarian's methods :
1.prove it
2. do not quote the conspiratorial imperialists of CCP led PRC dictators
3.independent verification please

Income per capita may have been rising in Tibet. What of tibetan people not
the Han colinisers ?


"Yu" wrote in message
om...
lid (John Savard) wrote in message
...
Recently, the documentary "What's Left of Us" about the desperate plight
of the Tibetan people in their homeland was brought to Edmonton.

Compared with the other Himalayan states, Nepal, Bhutan and Sikkim,
Tibetans have the highest living standards.
The difference is the Dalai Lama has the funding of CIA while nobody
cares about the 100,000 Bhutanese refugees in Nepal.
Supporting the Dalai Lama fit in with the right winger's agenda
starting a new cold war with China.

If they truely care about the values of human lives they will not be
dropping 1000 pounds bomb in Fallujah at night form 30,000 meters.

In sci.space.policy Yu wrote:
lid (John Savard) wrote in message ...
Recently, the documentary "What's Left of Us" about the desperate plight
of the Tibetan people in their homeland was brought to Edmonton.

Compared with the other Himalayan states, Nepal, Bhutan and Sikkim,
Tibetans have the highest living standards.
The difference is the Dalai Lama has the funding of CIA while nobody

Really? You wouldn't say want to offer proof of it?

cares about the 100,000 Bhutanese refugees in Nepal.
Supporting the Dalai Lama fit in with the right winger's agenda
starting a new cold war with China.

If they truely care about the values of human lives they will not be
dropping 1000 pounds bomb in Fallujah at night form 30,000 meters.

This is utterly different issue.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Sander Vesik wrote in message ...
In sci.space.policy Yu wrote:
lid (John Savard) wrote in message ...
Recently, the documentary "What's Left of Us" about the desperate plight
of the Tibetan people in their homeland was brought to Edmonton.

Compared with the other Himalayan states, Nepal, Bhutan and Sikkim,
Tibetans have the highest living standards.
The difference is the Dalai Lama has the funding of CIA while nobody

Really? You wouldn't say want to offer proof of it?

Ok, read this UNICEF statistics:

Nepal http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/...tatistics.html
Per capita Gross National Income: US$230
Life expectancy: 60
Literacy rate: 42
Primary sch enrolement:70%

Bhutan http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/...tatistics.html
Per catita Gross National Income:590
Life expectancy: 63
Literacy rate: 47
Primary sch enrolement:53%

Tibetans (China official statistics; there is no UN statistics on
regional China):
Per capita GDP: US$307 (Chinese yuan is under valued; the perchasing
power is considerably higher )
Life expectancy: 67
Literacy rate: 60
Primary sch enrolement:80%
------------
Tibetan are better off than their Himayan neighbours except that
because of the grossly under value yuan the percapita GDP of Tibetan
looks less than Bhutan.

CIA and Dalai Lama
Here is a declassified 1964 document on US Gov website. Dalai Lama was
paid US$180,000 a year by the CIA.
http://www.state.gov/www/about_state...x/337_343.html
excerpt: The cost of the Tibetan Program for FY 1964 can be summarized
in approximate figures as follows: a. Support of 2100 Tibetan
guerrillas based in Nepal--$ 500,000 b. Subsidy to the Dalai Lama--$
180,000 c. [1 line of source text not declassified] (equipment,
transportation, installation, and operator training costs)--$ 225,000
-----------

cares about the 100,000 Bhutanese refugees in Nepal.
Supporting the Dalai Lama fit in with the right winger's agenda
starting a new cold war with China.

If they truely care about the values of human lives they will not be
dropping 1000 pounds bomb in Fallujah at night form 30,000 meters.

This is utterly different issue.

Most of the lies about Tibet have originated from the Americans. It is
therefore important to look at the profile of Americans themselves to
discover their motives in spreading these lies?
Are they truely interested in human rights or just promoting their own
national interest?

Statistics from the CCP are both notoriously inaccurate and corrupt.

Extreme cas considert he SARS and AIDS cover-ups not to mention gross
understatement of miltary expenditure and all kinds of decietful bull****
from economic performance, human rights denials.

Christ the CCP are the MAN U. of lying.

In addition, the figures you use to refer to the inhabitiants of Tibet -
with Han colinistaion consideration of where the INDIGENOUS oppressed
peoples are at. Not aggregate stats.

LIES LIES and STATISITCS.
The only valid stats would have to come from an indepenedent authority -
difficult to do in the CCP dictatorship.


"Yu" wrote in message
om...
Sander Vesik wrote in message
...
In sci.space.policy Yu wrote:
lid (John Savard) wrote in message
...
Recently, the documentary "What's Left of Us" about the desperate
plight
of the Tibetan people in their homeland was brought to Edmonton.

Compared with the other Himalayan states, Nepal, Bhutan and Sikkim,
Tibetans have the highest living standards.
The difference is the Dalai Lama has the funding of CIA while nobody

Really? You wouldn't say want to offer proof of it?

Ok, read this UNICEF statistics:

Nepal http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/...tatistics.html
Per capita Gross National Income: US$230
Life expectancy: 60
Literacy rate: 42
Primary sch enrolement:70%

Bhutan http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/...tatistics.html
Per catita Gross National Income:590
Life expectancy: 63
Literacy rate: 47
Primary sch enrolement:53%

Tibetans (China official statistics; there is no UN statistics on
regional China):
Per capita GDP: US$307 (Chinese yuan is under valued; the perchasing
power is considerably higher )
Life expectancy: 67
Literacy rate: 60
Primary sch enrolement:80%
------------
Tibetan are better off than their Himayan neighbours except that
because of the grossly under value yuan the percapita GDP of Tibetan
looks less than Bhutan.

CIA and Dalai Lama
Here is a declassified 1964 document on US Gov website. Dalai Lama was
paid US$180,000 a year by the CIA.
http://www.state.gov/www/about_state...x/337_343.html
excerpt: The cost of the Tibetan Program for FY 1964 can be summarized
in approximate figures as follows: a. Support of 2100 Tibetan
guerrillas based in Nepal--$ 500,000 b. Subsidy to the Dalai Lama--$
180,000 c. [1 line of source text not declassified] (equipment,
transportation, installation, and operator training costs)--$ 225,000
-----------

cares about the 100,000 Bhutanese refugees in Nepal.
Supporting the Dalai Lama fit in with the right winger's agenda
starting a new cold war with China.

If they truely care about the values of human lives they will not be
dropping 1000 pounds bomb in Fallujah at night form 30,000 meters.

This is utterly different issue.

Most of the lies about Tibet have originated from the Americans. It is
therefore important to look at the profile of Americans themselves to
discover their motives in spreading these lies?
Are they truely interested in human rights or just promoting their own
national interest?

(Yu) wrote in message . com...
lid (John Savard) wrote in message ...
Recently, the documentary "What's Left of Us" about the desperate plight
of the Tibetan people in their homeland was brought to Edmonton.

Compared with the other Himalayan states, Nepal, Bhutan and Sikkim,
Tibetans have the highest living standards.
The difference is the Dalai Lama has the funding of CIA while nobody
cares about the 100,000 Bhutanese refugees in Nepal.
Supporting the Dalai Lama fit in with the right winger's agenda
starting a new cold war with China.

If they truely care about the values of human lives they will not be
dropping 1000 pounds bomb in Fallujah at night form 30,000 meters.

What has altitude got to do with it?

Besides, dropping them from 50m would be putting the aircrew's lives
at risk, so it's obvious that the US military cares about lives.

Water Barbarian wrote:
This is the biggest joke of today.

No wonder Bush is selected.

Haha, democracy and freedom are a joke. So funny.
You make me laugh. So funny.

The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. Vigilance
requires seriousness.

"Christopher M. Jones" wrote in message ...
Water Barbarian wrote:
This is the biggest joke of today.

No wonder Bush is selected.

Haha, democracy and freedom are a joke. So funny.
You make me laugh. So funny.

The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. Vigilance
requires seriousness.

What has Venezuela done to USA when Bush tried to overthrow Chavez.
One country that is most unfit to talk about freedom is USA.