The aging of the amateur

On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 21:20:35 -0500, "JJK" wrote:

"RichA" wrote:
This is something I can't quite pin down.
A few years ago, I noticed that amateurs seemed
snip

Rich,

Do you ever find time to observe?

Clear Skies,
John



Sure when it's clear.
-Rich

Middle age is like a second childhood. With more pocket money and the
time and space to play with your toys properly.

The problem I find is that the fire of youth to build things from
scratch is gone. I had to do it back then because there was no money.
Now it's simply easier to buy something than to make it. Despite the
skills, tools and materials one has picked up over the decades. The
vast hoard of things that will come in handy are now better arranged.
On proper shelving in plastic storage boxes in the huge shed I built
alone. But it all still goes unnused! Waiting for that special
project.
I'd have given my right arm for all of this skill and equipment 40
years ago. And 30 years ago. Even 20 years ago. If you're going to
build something. Then do it when you're still young. No matter what it
takes. You'll learn skills you never knew were in you. Woodwork,
metalwork, fibreglass lay-up, optical work, concrete mixing, writing
design software. The list is endless. Few hobbies offer such a range
of skills to be learnt with your bare hands and a library book at your
elbow.

Regards
Chris.B

All I can tell you is that I see a lot of gray hair when I am at the
podium at our club meetings

We are children of the Space Age. We were around during the golden years
of NASA when men walked on the moon. We were inspired by this.
Most people around today were not around in 1969.

Matthew Ota

This is something I can't quite pin down.
A few years ago, I noticed that amateurs seemed
to be older than they were 20 years ago, on
average. At first I thought it was because young
people were not coming into the hobby. A shot of
a RASC crowd in Sky and Tel seemed to point this
out. Most of the people were in their 40s to 60s.
However, it is possible that the average hobbyist
today is older because more older people are entering
the hobby. There is a generation of people in that
age group who are pursuing amateur astronomy, I know
of about a dozen personally who didn't get into astronomy
until they hit their 40s.
So the question is, is there any way to ascertain
if young people are joining the hobby in fewer numbers?
Are the scope sellers selling at the bottom end
more scopes simply because of continued price drops,
making the lowest scopes into "impulse items"
or has the hobby grown in people numbers over the
last 20 years and that's what is driving the increased
sales of telescopes? From what I can tell, older hobbyist
entrants do not buy cheap 60mm refractors for the most part.
They tend to buy (at a minimum) a decent Dob or ETX.
Much like (I presume) when they enter other hobbies such
as bird watching. They don't buy a $30 pair of binos
from Sears, they purchase something decent.

Bob Schmall wrote:
...not to mention the decline in science education. One example, recent: a
town in Wisconsin, my home state, I'm embarassed to say, has just decided
that "alternates" to evolution can be taught in its public schools.
According to the newspaper article, it is the only community in the United
States that allows the teaching of other theories.

Bring it on. I am all for the teaching of other "theories"--provided
they are really taught in the context of science, so that creation
science and the like can be shown for the shoddy scaffold of half-truths,
errors, and inconsistencies that they are.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt

Bring it on. I am all for the teaching of
other "theories"--provided they are really
taught in the context of science, so that
creation science and the like can be
shown for the shoddy scaffold of
half-truths, errors, and inconsistencies
that they are.

Brian Tung

YES! Very good point! If "creation science," "intelligent design," and
other such wishful, imaginary, crapola want to masquerade as science,
they should be subjected to the same rough and tumble indignities as any
other scientific theory. If they were actually allowed to be discussed
in schools under such a harsh light, the proponents of such crap could
well regret their efforts at having forced them into the curricula of
public schools. I've long thought a course in the history of scientific
thought would be more valuable to the general public than the generally
available courses in specific subjects... chemistry, biology, etc. This
way, theories of the past could be taught, along with expanations of why
they were popular and why they fell by the wayside. Probably best not
to get me started...
Marty

To bad many miserable old *******s can't part with the past.

"RichA" wrote in message
...
This is something I can't quite pin down.
A few years ago, I noticed that amateurs seemed
to be older than they were 20 years ago, on
average.

Take a look at plastic model building sometime, it's even worse !!!











































--
Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will

In message , Tom Polakis
writes
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 13:26:44 -0500, RichA wrote:

This is something I can't quite pin down.
A few years ago, I noticed that amateurs seemed
to be older than they were 20 years ago, on average...

They are. take a look at the story that begins on p. 82 of the
September 2000 S&T. Between 1979 and 1998 the U.S. median age went
from 30 to 32 years while the S&T subscriber median age went from 35 to
48. The story offers plausible explanations. I think it has
everything to do with proximity to a dark sky, and countless other
urban and suburban distractions offered to Generation X-and Y-ers.

Don't underestimate the positive influence of the highly successful
Apollo programme to put men on the moon. That brought a lot of people
into the hobby during the 60's. These days there are coffee book images
from HST all over the web so that observing directly has lost some of
its appeal.

Chess also had a renaissance in the public eye around that time due to
the Cold War proxy grudge match of Fischer vs Passkey in Iceland..

Regards,
--
Martin Brown

RichA wrote in message . ..
This is something I can't quite pin down.
A few years ago, I noticed that amateurs seemed
to be older than they were 20 years ago, on
average. At first I thought it was because young
people were not coming into the hobby. A shot of
(...)

This has definitely been my impression. Though I can't
say for certain, who knows?

Probably a combination of many things. I don't think the
sciences are as popular as they were in the 50's 60's and
70's (what with the moon shot and all the rapid tech changes
that occured during this era). I think the culture has
changed too.

With the steadily growing population, and the increasing
use of those terrible streetlights, light pollution is much
much worse than it used to be. Most urban dwellers have probably
never seen the milky way. The night sky looks dead from most
cities, just the brightest stars visible. 'Tis indeed a travesty.

-Eric

"moT" wrote in message news:5Tujd.114743$df2.44842@edtnps89...

To bad many miserable old *******s can't part with the past.

Could it be that when they see what the young have done with their
world it makes them miserable?

Actually, I think it goes with the territory. The older generation
normally goes through a period of disatisfaction with their lives. The
dreams and hopes of youth are rarely unfulfilled. Many of the young
seem not to have the same standards or ideals of our youth. Their
basic communications skills often seem totally lacking these days.

It is said that you cannot put a wise head on young shoulders. A
clever head perhaps. But wise? No. And a damn good thing too! If it
was left to the old. Nothing much would happen in the way of change.
Whether that change is actually progress is best judged by the young.
But only when they grow older and wiser. ;-)

Actually I am rather excited by present technological progress. I saw
the first post-war black and white TVs and listened to the first
experimental stereo broadcasts on TV and radio. Combined for a few
minutes to produce two channels. Coloured TV came much later. Though
the programme material remained and remains poor. Now we can have live
pictures via sattelite from all over the world on screens the size of
small cinemas. And real cinema films with full surrund sound from
small silver DVD discs. Instead of listening to 78rpm shellacs or the
steam radio. But now everybody sits in front of the telly and does
very little else. (Except eat)

I groped with the first crude and slow PCs with rubber membrane
keyboards and add-on 16K memory. Now I have broadband and can irritate
those who share my NGs worldwide. But I'm still waiting for voice
recognition rather than this ancient typing technology once limited
strictly to the fairer sex. I can store thousands of images from my
digital camera and share them with anybody remotely interested in
them. Though there's still a long way to go before we all have free
online publishing.

Cars were once owned by the middle classes and above when I was a kid.
Now anybody can jam the roads with their Euro-boxes. The freedom to
cycle anywhere in near perfect peace has become dangerous and
unpleasant. Unless one goes off road.

I remember dial-up bakelite telephones in public telephone boxes. Now
my younger colleagues communicate noisily from the bathroom while
sending instant pictures of their daily lives to the world at large.
The multi-task communicator of the sci-fi stories has finally arrived!
Just a shame the users are being fleeced by the service providers.

You see what I mean about our disatisfaction with the modern world? It
always seems like two steps forward and one step back! I expect we're
all being held back by that Bill Gates too. He must be getting on a
bit by now. ;-)

Chris.B