$tellafane

Hello, Davoud,
It is good to hear compassion rather than the usual embittered moralism
on s.a.a. This blaming the victim stuff is getting boring. Lots of
assumptions that those living on a fixed income have done something wrong.
Bill Meyers


Davoud wrote:

BllFs6:

A pet peeve of mine....retirees bitchn about a "fixed income"....


First, AT LEAST its a dependable (mostly) income.....and you've got 24/7 of
your weekly schedule "free".....

Now compare THAT to some poor man/woman working their ass off on one or 2
jobs, and perhaps raising kids to boot just to make ends meet...


And just how do you suppose that a retiree gets to the point of living
on a fixed pension?

Perhaps you think that she was born with a fixed pension.

Consider the possibility that the retiree got where she is by working
her ass off on one (or two or three, just to make ends meet) jobs for
40-plus years and raising kids, to boot.

Davoud

(By the way, "raising kids to boot" means "raising kids for the purpose
of kicking them," while "raising kids, to boot" means "also raising
kids." I am _not_ saying that your choice of punctuation was wrong and
that mine is right; perhaps your hypothetical annuitant did raise
children for the purpose of kicking them, while my hypothetical
annuitant raised children in addition to doing other hard work.)

BllFs6 wrote:
A pet peeve of mine....retirees bitchn about a "fixed income"....

Davoud chimed in:
Consider the possibility that the retiree got where she is by working
her ass off on one (or two or three, just to make ends meet) jobs for
40-plus years and raising kids, to boot.

Bill Meyers kindly replied:
It is good to hear compassion rather than the usual embittered moralism
on s.a.a. This blaming the victim stuff is getting boring. Lots of
assumptions that those living on a fixed income have done something wrong.

Now Davoud mouths off again:

Yeah, I'm a compassionate leftist*. I happen to believe that lack of
compassion -- blame the poor for being poor, and hate them for it, hate
the gays, hate the Jews, hate PBS, hate everything but hypocrisy --
imposes enormous costs on our society; costs that aren't as easily
measured as the trillions now being squandered on spreading the hatred
and further marginalizing the poor.

Hmmmm! Did the above sound like embittered moralism!? I hope not,
because I harbor no bitterness, nor any smug moralism.

Davoud

* Probably too far left to be called a "liberal," but still saddened by
the fact that "liberal," a word whose modern American meaning is "one
who believes in equal justice for all" has been turned into a
pejorative term by the merchants of hatred.

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

Where did you get the $90 price? Planning will get the price down a fair
bit I suspect.
I'll also note that if you don't like the price of the weekend, there is
nobody ordering you to attend the party.

--
Bob May
Losing weight is easy! If you ever want to lose weight, eat and drink less.
Works every time it is tried!

Like everything else, IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY, nothing else just MONEY MONEY
MONEY......

No, actually money isn't important, unless you don't have it.
Bill Meyers

Julie in Tampa wrote:

Like everything else, IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY, nothing else just MONEY MONEY
MONEY......

While reading in the bathroom on Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:44:36 -0400, I
saw that Bill Meyers had written:

No, actually money isn't important, unless you don't have it.

"I've tried poor, and I've tried rich. I recommend rich."



--------------
Beady's Corollary to Occam's Razor: "The likeliest explanation of any phenomenon is almost always the most boring one imaginable."


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

I'm one of those retirees. I'm not however on a fixed income. Why?
Because if I want something my pension and/or social security doesn't
cover, I go back to work. Often it's not hard or long . . . just
longand hard enough to get that new eyepiece or solar filter or
whatever. I know this is a radical solution to this problem, but in
our society it works just about every time.

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 04:43:30 -0400, John Beaderstadt
wrote:

While reading in the bathroom on Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:44:36 -0400, I
saw that Bill Meyers had written:

No, actually money isn't important, unless you don't have it.

"I've tried poor, and I've tried rich. I recommend rich."



--------------
Beady's Corollary to Occam's Razor: "The likeliest explanation of any phenomenon is almost always the most boring one imaginable."


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Hello,

I'm sorry you feel that way. This was only our second Stellafane, so I
don't write from too much experience, but one of the things that stands
out to me is how little, if any, Stellafane is about money. We
registered ahead for a family of six, and didn't pay anywhere near $90.
We did, however, arrive early (though not as early as planned due to an
unexpected medical situation) and tried to help out as much as possible.
My three boys all volunteered. This seems to be more the spirit of
Stellafane. I don't believe any of the Springfield guys get paid for
their efforts. At least not in money anyway. Several donate significant
amounts, besides the work - some of which goes on year-round. I also
know several of the guys from the past two NEAF shows. They haul a bunch
of stuff down and don't try to sell anything - just demo mirror grinding.

If you are really having a hard time with the admission, why not ask
here if some of us could help you out? I have a lot of bills, but five
bucks to help out a fellow enthusiast I could manage. I suspect there
are enough others that would do the same. You could even have a dollar
left over for the raffle and maybe win one of Al Nagler's donated
eyepiece sets (~$700 -2700). I suppose the cynics will say this is
crass commercialism, but I doubt that he needs to give away so much to
make a good impression.

Hope to see you next year, whoever you are,

Gary Fuchs

waitodie wrote:
I am living on a pension and went to stellafane this weekend. $90.00 may
not seem much to the entrepreneurs at stellafane, but to me, it is the
difference between not going. Could they be more merciful to us without an
income, or must I just stay in the my house doing nothing.

Hello, Gary,
It's good to see a compassionate response.
You are not alone. I notice with pleasure that my college alumni
association, in preparing for the 50th reunion of our class, lists the
name of a particular class officer as a member of our class can write to
in confidence if they need financial help in order to attend. This is a
lot kinder than asking why the person didn't make better use of his
college education. Lots of things can happen to people beyond their control.
This kind of financial aid is well beyond the resources of a star party
such as Stellafane, but it's good to see someone's heart is in the right
place. Perhaps there could at least be a waiver of the fees in case of
financial hardship. I for one would pay five or ten dollars more in fees
to a star party to make this happen.
Clear skies to you
Bill Meyers

Gary Fuchs wrote:

Hello,

I'm sorry you feel that way. This was only our second Stellafane, so I
don't write from too much experience, but one of the things that stands
out to me is how little, if any, Stellafane is about money. We
registered ahead for a family of six, and didn't pay anywhere near $90.
We did, however, arrive early (though not as early as planned due to an
unexpected medical situation) and tried to help out as much as possible.
My three boys all volunteered. This seems to be more the spirit of
Stellafane. I don't believe any of the Springfield guys get paid for
their efforts. At least not in money anyway. Several donate significant
amounts, besides the work - some of which goes on year-round. I also
know several of the guys from the past two NEAF shows. They haul a bunch
of stuff down and don't try to sell anything - just demo mirror grinding.

If you are really having a hard time with the admission, why not ask
here if some of us could help you out? I have a lot of bills, but five
bucks to help out a fellow enthusiast I could manage. I suspect there
are enough others that would do the same. You could even have a dollar
left over for the raffle and maybe win one of Al Nagler's donated
eyepiece sets (~$700 -2700). I suppose the cynics will say this is
crass commercialism, but I doubt that he needs to give away so much to
make a good impression.

Hope to see you next year, whoever you are,

Gary Fuchs

waitodie wrote:

I am living on a pension and went to stellafane this weekend. $90.00
may
not seem much to the entrepreneurs at stellafane, but to me, it is the
difference between not going. Could they be more merciful to us
without an
income, or must I just stay in the my house doing nothing.

"waitodie" wrote in message news:YkTTc.18194$TI1.5298@attbi_s52...
I am living on a pension and went to stellafane this weekend. $90.00 may
not seem much to the entrepreneurs at stellafane, but to me, it is the
difference between not going. Could they be more merciful to us without an
income, or must I just stay in the my house doing nothing.

Couldn't the Stellafane people have gotten a grant from some of the funds
generated by that prison they build nearby?
-Rich