Up go the outdoor Chrismtas lights, down goes the telescope?

In message , John
Beaderstadt writes
I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by
"Starstuffed" on Mon, 08 Dec
2003 16:01:09 GMT, which said:

My new neighbors, who have up to now made little use of their new home's
outdoor lighting, recently installed just enough Christmas lights in their
front yard to seriously inhibit my observation...

I've seen people here objections to the NYC temporary 9/11 memorial
lighting, and now I'm starting to see complaints about Christmas
displays. Are most amateur astronomers really that self-centered and
selfish?

He will be blaming his neighbours for there being a full moon next.
Hardly likely to be good galaxy hunting night yesterday.

I do find it scary that whenever there is one of these threads occurs
someone always wants to blast away at the lights with firearms!

Regards,
--
Martin Brown

(Robert Cook) wrote in message news:
If you show them a nice DSO in your telescope, maybe they'd be more
sympathetic.

I've only been lurking here for a few months but I've seen a lot of
statements regarding the power of Saturn's rings to lure someone into
astronomy (or an appreciation thereof). The Saturn Opposition is
coming up at the end of the month and the view is already incredible.
Add that to your list of things to show them. While they're looking,
maybe suggest that they can turn off the lights to get a better view.

I think this was already suggested, but if the subject of lighting
does come up maybe suggest a reasonable time for them to turn off the
lights. Something late enough that there's not a lot of traffic left
to appreciate their lights, but early enough for you to do some gazing
and still get some sleep. (9:30pm?)

It also wouldn't hurt to give them an open invitation to come outside
and take a look if/when they ever notice that you're out stargazing.
Heck, you might eventually end up with new stargazing (and
lighting-sensitive) neighbors!

Martin Brown wrote in message
...

He will be blaming his neighbours for there being a full moon next.
Hardly likely to be good galaxy hunting night yesterday.

Yes, I'm well aware of the fact that the moon was just passed full last
night. . .but that was not my point with this post. . .the moon will cease
to be a factor in just a few days and, additionally, other Christmas seasons
await. As for placing blame, you have no right to secondguess my actions.
Your remarks were meanspirited and might better have been kept to yourself.

I do find it scary that whenever there is one of these threads occurs
someone always wants to blast away at the lights with firearms!

Do you really think that people are serious when they allude to the use of
firearms? Then again, amateur astronomers, from all the sleep deprivation,
could "go postal" at the drop of a hat.

--
Martin
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Starstuffed:
Yes, I'm well aware of the fact that the moon was just passed full last
night. . .but that was not my point with this post. . .the moon will cease
to be a factor in just a few days and, additionally, other Christmas seasons
await.

As do other moons. Few amateur astronomers have the luxury of working
where there is no light pollution. I certainly don't. Christmas -- and
Christmas lighting are here to stay. Just get over it and do what you
can.

Gotta run. Sunny and relatively warm here in Maryland, and a good day
to complete the Exterior Holiday Illumination! Of course, none of my
neighbours are astronomers, so who's going to complain?

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

John Beaderstadt wrote in message . ..

I've seen people here objections to the NYC temporary 9/11 memorial
lighting,

Lately, it seems that every architect at least dreams about designing
buildings that have enormous beams of light shooting into the sky.
It's a tasteless, superficial illusion of grandeur, so I don't like
it. Needless to say, I don't think that it makes a fitting memorial,
either (I get the "ghost buildings" idea, but it's still gaudy).

and now I'm starting to see complaints about Christmas
displays.

They can be very pretty, but some people might go overboard. I don't
like bright lights of any kind intruding onto my property. My
next-door neighbors both have powerful floodlights which direct their
beams horizontally. Fortunately, these lights are seldom used, but
when they are, a blinding glare is cast over my backyard and into my
house. Obviously, that's more than a little annoying, but it doesn't
happen frequently enough for me to talk to my neighbors about it, so I
haven't.

By the way, one of my other hobbies is home theater, and I take every
measure I can to ensure that I'm not making too much noise for my
neighbors. Ideally, they would hear nothing at all, and that's the
usual case. Noise pollution is something that's very obvious to most
people, so they automatically try to be considerate to others. In
contrast, far from being obvious, light pollution is somewhat
difficult for most people to understand, much less anticipate, so some
communication may be necessary.

Are most amateur astronomers really that self-centered and
selfish?

Yes, just like everyone else, we must look out for our own interests,
or no one else will. Smokers want to smoke in bars and restaurants,
while non-smokers demand their natural right to breathe clean air.
Most people want to make the night as day, while astronomers demand
their natural right to a dark night sky (imagine night being
dark--what an audacious concept!).

As a group, amateur astronomers seem to be relatively selfless and
generous, but like everyone else, we don't want to be disturbed to the
point where it becomes difficult or impossible to pursue our
interests. Granted, it's a bit much to complain about temporary
Christmas lights, but it depends on how much light we're talking
about--have you ever seen National Lampoon's _Christmas Vacation_? :-)

We're being kind of facetious in this thread, in any case. I don't
think that anyone is seriously suggesting the use of a BB gun
(especially when shotguns are so much more effective on Christmas
lights ;-) ).


- Robert Cook

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 17:21:40 GMT, "Starstuffed"
wrote:

Do you really think that people are serious when they allude to the use of
firearms? Then again, amateur astronomers, from all the sleep deprivation,
could "go postal" at the drop of a hat.

I'm glad you said that. I posted the original crack about "that's why
God invented BB guns", based on genuinely good jokes such as "that's
why God invented vacuum cleaners" and so on. I was also sure that
people would know I was not serious about BB guns.

Wrong again, *sigh*. Why is there such humor impairment in the world
today? People are too busy defending every little thing they can think
of. Losing the sense of humor is a more serious problem than, say,
actually using BB guns to shoot out bright lights.

James (not a troll)

Robert Cook wrote in message
om...

Lately, it seems that every architect at least dreams about designing
buildings that have enormous beams of light shooting into the sky.


.. . .and this is not limited to big cities. Everett, Washington (population
approximately 85,000) has recently done this with a new convention center
nearing completion. There are what appears to be two towers that support
the roof of the structure with cables attached to them -- much like the
cables which support a suspension bridge. Both of these towers, perhaps 150
feet tall or so, are awash with multiple light beams being directed upwards
from the ground. I doubt that any approval was required or requested for
this "little touch."

--
Martin
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