female amateur astronomers

As a female astronomer whose spouse had absolutely no interest in observing, I
just had to chime in a little.

When it became clear to the salesman that I
had some knowledge of what I was looking at, he said, "that's not bad
for a girl."

About that time I would have walked out and found another dealer. Trust me --
they are NOT all that way. Most of the ones I have dealt with treat me just
like "one of the guys".

there must be a fair measure of women, but I personally have not seen
many. I can't remember seeing one woman at a star party who was not there
because her husband or boyfriend didn't her. I'm talking about a lady who
lugged her own telescope to the star party, set it up herself and remained
until the first hint of sunlight.

Perhaps it depends on what area of the country you live in? Personally, I do
just that with my 12.3-in reflector and at least 4 other ladies in my astro
club do the same on occasion including one who has a 16-in truss tube Newtonian
and one lady in her late 60's who merely does a quick setup of her little ETX
on the hood of her car. And no, we usually don't go together unless we meet up
at a star party somewhere or perhaps a few times a year at the club's
observatory site. Females also seem to be present at about any star party I've
been to lately ... with their OWN telescopes.

Safety IS a big issue these days. A canine companion is a very good idea -- if
nothing else they can be a good judge whether all those strange noises at night
are anything you should be worried about. Your best bet is to find a
reasonably secure area to observe in, such as private property where you have
the owners permission to set up. Isolated parks or country lanes are NOT a
good idea unless very frequently patrolled. Our astro club has a dark sky site
on private property which we have 24/7 access to and is patrolled several times
an evening by the local sheriff. A quick email to our club's yahoo group
mentioning that you are going out and wouldn't mind company will also often
bring one or two others out for company that were maybe hesitating about going
out by themselves also.

Cheers,
Sandy Mc.





(Sandy mcgdogmc)
40d 26' N 89d 13' W

"Jon Isaacs" wrote in message
...
I understand he worries, and I understand that it is
probably not a wise idea in this day and age for me to head off into a
dark remote location alone. But it is nonetheless stifling.

My wife also worries about me and these days I rarely go to the mountains
without a companion. Part of this is that I live in San Diego and my
favorite
spots are near the US-Mexico border, lots of illegal activity going on
around.

I find it stifling but I also know that I am a sitting duck, engrossed in
the
eyepiece. A few times while observing alone a strange noice has startled
me
badly. No need for coffee after one of those. The local forest ranger
says he
likes to see me because the smugglers have to move their dropoff points.
Not
too reassuring for me though...

Alan French is probably your best resource here though both he and his
wife Sue
are avid astronomers, she saves her writing for Sky and Telescope.

Jon

By the way, I really do enjoy Sue's columns, well written and interesting
targets too.

Jon,

Thanks. Sue loves writing and I think it shows.

I'm glad we're not in your situation, and fear I am not going to be very
helpful. Here in upstate NY, Sue and I both feel perfectly comfortable
being out in the middle of nowhere after dark. She used to go observing on
her own, and says it never bothered her nor did she worry about having
problems. We both feel we're far more likely to run into bad situations in
our normal day to day activities in populous areas than out in the middle of
nowhere at 1 AM. Neither of us has even considered having a large dog along
nor having a handgun, nor have we run into situations where we wished for
either.

If being alone after dark is worrisome, the best antidote, IMHO, is company.
The local astronomy club is the most likely source of company. We have a
dark and rather remote observing site used for public star parties and for
impromptu observing by club members and guests. While amateur astronomers
are a rather odd lot, it shouldn't take too long for any new observer to
feel comfortable amongst them. Perhaps Jeana could get her husband to keep
her company for a couple of observing sessions with the local club - it
could quickly build a good comfort level for her and her husband.

If getting company continues to be a problem, a site with good cell phone
reception would be a good choice. It is also easy to hop in the car, lock
the doors, and drive away if something makes you too uncomfortable.

Clear skies, Alan

On 1 Oct 2003 11:33:47 -0700, (Jeana) wrote:

I am a passionate amateur astronomer, and am realizing more and more how difficult it is to be a female in this field.
snip
Or men who have female partners with a serious case of the astronomy bug?

My daughter is an amateur astronomer:

You'll find her picture on Ray Cash's Deep Sky web-page:

http://members.aol.com/anonglxy/deepsky.htm

She recently moved up from a 10" Dob to an 18".

Mark Wagner
Compact Precision Telescopes http://www.astronomy-mall.com/cpt

Jeana wrote:

[...]

I am a passionate amateur astronomer, and am realizing more and more
how difficult it is to be a female in this field.

I understand completely. Not only did I grow up in a household that had
a 5:1 estrogen to testosterone ratio, but some years back I signed up
for a cooking class hosted at a local gourmet shop and I was treated
like little more than a piece of meat. Although, in my case I actually
enjoyed that.

Anyway, something tells me you're posting from the D.C. area, and one
thought would be to really investigate the local astro club scene. Take
the hubby along if you can. Perhaps you could poach a few females who
are members and convince them to starting your own females-only club? A
catchy club name, like say, hhmm...``200x Girl Power'' might be an
assist to attracting members. I meet many women who express a desire to
observe, so I'm reasonably confident you could form this kind of club
with a bit of ingenuity, scouting, poaching and perhaps even advertising
in some local publications or on some web sites.


Am I the only one with this kind of a problem? Are there female
amateur astro urbanites out there who can relate? Or men who have
female partners with a serious case of the astronomy bug?

I have an open marriage. I'm open to do what I want and my wife is open
to follow her interests. What this really boils down to is that I don't
look in her clothes and shoe closets and she doesn't pay any attention
to the assorted astro toys I collect like green stamps. Every once in a
blue moon I can get my better half excited about some astronomical
event, but of course she doesn't worry about my safety when I'm out
there alone in the urban jungle of NY. Mostly because she knows where
the life insurance policies and the safe deposit keys are stored.

Anyway, enough about me. Hopefully you'll find a solution to your
problem as it would be a shame to have to give up on something you so
obviously enjoy simply due to circumstances. Keep us posted and best of
luck!

--
-John Steinberg
email: lid

....And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped.
--Sir Bedevere

Maybe you married the wrong guy. Couples are supposed have similar
interests. Maybe I did too because she didn't even bat an eyelash at
Mars. She flatly says she's just not interested in this and I can't
understand why.

I am a female amateur astronomer/astro-photographer. Most folks think
I'm a bit different. Many ask about astrology. I know alot about that
too. A very select few ask about astronomy. Astrology is what brought
me into my study of astronomy. I needed to know and see what Venus in
Leo looked liked rising above the Atlantic Ocean in degrees
corresponding to the time of my birth. I needed to see my Virgo Sun, my
Libra Mercury, my Taurus Full Harvest Moon and my Pisces Mars.

I have been fortunate enough to find a few other folks with limited
interest in astronomy, and have been able to convey "our" interest to
their children. A township police officer's boy just received his Boy
Scout badge in astronomy with the help of my Astroscan.

I no longer have a problem going to a dark sky site. I divorced my
husband of 19+ years and found a wonderful new husband, who is
interested and who is learning the sky with me. His now retired Dad, who
resides in Antigua worked for NASA on the hydraulic systems for the
satellite dishes around the world.

We are moving to southern Arizona.

Life is good.

Cathy

"Cathy" wrote in message
...
I am a female amateur astronomer/astro-photographer. Most folks think
I'm a bit different. Many ask about astrology. I know alot about that
too. A very select few ask about astronomy. Astrology is what brought
me into my study of astronomy. I needed to know and see what Venus in
Leo looked liked rising above the Atlantic Ocean in degrees
corresponding to the time of my birth. I needed to see my Virgo Sun, my
Libra Mercury, my Taurus Full Harvest Moon and my Pisces Mars.

I have been fortunate enough to find a few other folks with limited
interest in astronomy, and have been able to convey "our" interest to
their children. A township police officer's boy just received his Boy
Scout badge in astronomy with the help of my Astroscan.

I no longer have a problem going to a dark sky site. I divorced my
husband of 19+ years and found a wonderful new husband, who is
interested and who is learning the sky with me. His now retired Dad, who
resides in Antigua worked for NASA on the hydraulic systems for the
satellite dishes around the world.

We are moving to southern Arizona.

Life is good.

Cathy

It seems everything you wrote is designed to bring attention to you and not
offer any advice. I highly doubt much of what you say is true..IMHO

Hello, Jeana,
You ask very good questions, eloquently. My own thoughts are as
follows:
1. I never observe alone in a remote spot. I advise against doing
it. You need at least one or two guys with you in my opinion. You will
feel safer and less nervous and will enjoy the observing more. Even though
I am a guy I still like to have more than one other guy present. Intruders
can show up in groups, in pickup trucks, I have found.
2. A sizable dog with a loud bark would surely help, but I feel it
not be sufficient to protect a lone woman adequately from an intruder or a
group of intruders.
3. Maybe some of my own experience will help My own club has an
observing group, which goes out to Stonelick State Park near Cincinnati,
to observe any weekend when the moon and the skies permit it. Scott, who
shepherds the observing group, communicates with us by email a day or two
before, saying that he will be there and listing some of the other people
who plan to be there. Even though it is at a state park, enough curious
people drive by in pickup trucks that I would not feel safe being there
alone or even with just one other person.
Based on my experience, what I suggest in this regard is
that you get the email addresses and phone numbers of the other active
observers in you local club, and arrange the observing a day in advance by
email, and then phone to confirm a few hours before you go out to observe.

An example of this procedure can be found on the web site
of The Astronomy Connection, a group of California observers, who send
each other observing invitations or maybe it's indications, by email , to
tell each other where they are planning to observe from and asking who
else is planning on going. The TAC web site calls these OI postings.
Their web site is http://observers.org/tac.mailing.list/ so you can see
how they do it and how your club might do it. This helps prevent a
situation where you find yourself alone in a remote location. Many people
fail to realize that there is a great deal of violent crime in rural
areas; somehow they have formed the opinion that it occurs only in urban
areas, an opinion that is mistaken.
4. If you and your companions observe from a place patrolled by
the state police, such as a state park let them know in advance that you
will be the ere and let them know that they are welcome to look in on you
from time to time, , and look through your scopes. State police
appreciate being informed in advance about what is going on in their area
so it is easier for them to keep it safe. Make sure you can reach them
easily in an emergency, perhaps using 911 or calling their special number.

5. As for interesting your spouse in astronomy, I started a
thread here on SAA a few months ago inquiring how people thought this
might be accomplished. I have found that people don't like playing second
fiddle on other people's telescopes; they prefer to have their won.
Presenting a spouse with his or her own scope is one way to stir their
interest and appreciation of astronomy, I believe. Possibly this might
work in your case? There is no panacea, I am sure, but it might be worth
a try.
6.. I thought the suggestion about inviting some club members
over for coffee so your husband could meet them and begin to feel
comfortable with them, was a good one.
I think it is great that you are interested in observational
astronomy. There are several women observers in our club and they are a
definite asset.
Clear skies,
Bill Meyers

Jeana wrote:

I am a passionate amateur astronomer, and am realizing more and more
how difficult it is to be a female in this field. My first
realization of this came when I walked in to a telescope retailer and
they reacted to me like they had never had a female customer before.
They asked me personal questions about my social status, etc. (e.g.
"do you have a significant other? maybe HE can carry the scope for
you") and assumed I knew nothing about telescopes ("this is what is
called a NEW-TO-NI-AN"). When it became clear to the salesman that I
had some knowledge of what I was looking at, he said, "that's not bad
for a girl."

I also live in a very urban area and can't see anything in the night
sky unless I drive out for at least an hour and a half to the
mountains or the desert. My husband, although very supportive of my
love of astronomy, does not like it when I want to drive out alone to
some remote location (and usually those places have no cellphone
reception). He tries to go with me most of the time but can't
accompany me every time I want to go (which is all the time). He does
not want to hold me back from pursuing this hobby, and I recognize
that he has reason to worry about my heading out to the mountains
alone. I try to always take someone with me, which requires that I
can't leave when I want, or stay as long as I want. It also means I
can only go when I have someone to go with me, which means my
enjoyment of astronomy depends on my ability to secure a chaperone for
the night. I understand he worries, and I understand that it is
probably not a wise idea in this day and age for me to head off into a
dark remote location alone. But it is nonetheless stifling.

I also tried to make friends with people in local astronomy clubs.
Perhaps I should give this some time. I don't have too many friends
who share this interest as passionately as I do, and it's quite
difficult to find someone among my existing friends who are willing to
accompany me on these field trips. It takes time to get to know new
people, and it takes a longer amount of time for one's spouse to get
to know people well enough to feel comfortable enough to not worry
about my hanging out with them in a dark remote location until the wee
hours of the night.

Am I the only one with this kind of a problem? Are there female
amateur astro urbanites out there who can relate? Or men who have
female partners with a serious case of the astronomy bug? My husband
is not the overly-protective type, and he hardly ever holds me back
from pursuing various interests, and he personally dislikes having to
have me adhere to certain conditions in order to head out for a
viewing.

I'd appreciate any suggestions or insights anyone might have about
this issue.

Warning, typos are guarenteed in the following post...

My experience and background is a bit different from yours. I am a
female amateur whose interest was sparked when I met my husband over
ten years ago. He is a "hard-core" kind of guy. (I should have guessed
that when four of our first five dates were thinly veiled observing
sessions.) Since then my interest in astronomy has grown (I am finally
getting more of a handle on the more technical aspects, ah, so much to
learn...)

I will, however, relate what other female astronomer friends and
colleagues have expressed to me.

Yes, many women feel that the field (both professionally and on an
amateur level) is strongly male dominated. Most of the men in are
great guys who welcome ALL participants irregardless of issues like
gender. There are, however, some men who DO go out of their way to
itmidate female counterparts. Happens pretty much everywhere, I guess.

As far as sales-people..... I have heard a lot of bonehead assumptions
from those parts as well. I will say that you are less likely to get
such uneducated responses from a "professional" vendors but that is
far from a guarentee, boneheads are like weeds, they pop up anywhere!
Even the best suppliers can have one dud employee and you can have the
misfortune to encounter him (or her).

As far as needing a chaperone, I used to think this was a gender
issue, now I do not. In the times we live in I have found men becoming
just as cautious as women when venturing out alone. Small observing
groups or club star parties are very popular alternatives to solo
viewing. If you don't want to go out alone and a viewing partner is
unavailable, use that night as an opportunity to view planetaries or
the moon from your backyard (if possible). YMMV

Dawn In Sacramento


(Jeana) wrote in message . com...
I am a passionate amateur astronomer, and am realizing more and more
how difficult it is to be a female in this field. My first
realization of this came when I walked in to a telescope retailer and
they reacted to me like they had never had a female customer before.
They asked me personal questions about my social status, etc. (e.g.
"do you have a significant other? maybe HE can carry the scope for
you") and assumed I knew nothing about telescopes ("this is what is
called a NEW-TO-NI-AN"). When it became clear to the salesman that I
had some knowledge of what I was looking at, he said, "that's not bad
for a girl."

I also live in a very urban area and can't see anything in the night
sky unless I drive out for at least an hour and a half to the
mountains or the desert. My husband, although very supportive of my
love of astronomy, does not like it when I want to drive out alone to
some remote location (and usually those places have no cellphone
reception). He tries to go with me most of the time but can't
accompany me every time I want to go (which is all the time). He does
not want to hold me back from pursuing this hobby, and I recognize
that he has reason to worry about my heading out to the mountains
alone. I try to always take someone with me, which requires that I
can't leave when I want, or stay as long as I want. It also means I
can only go when I have someone to go with me, which means my
enjoyment of astronomy depends on my ability to secure a chaperone for
the night. I understand he worries, and I understand that it is
probably not a wise idea in this day and age for me to head off into a
dark remote location alone. But it is nonetheless stifling.

I also tried to make friends with people in local astronomy clubs.
Perhaps I should give this some time. I don't have too many friends
who share this interest as passionately as I do, and it's quite
difficult to find someone among my existing friends who are willing to
accompany me on these field trips. It takes time to get to know new
people, and it takes a longer amount of time for one's spouse to get
to know people well enough to feel comfortable enough to not worry
about my hanging out with them in a dark remote location until the wee
hours of the night.

Am I the only one with this kind of a problem? Are there female
amateur astro urbanites out there who can relate? Or men who have
female partners with a serious case of the astronomy bug? My husband
is not the overly-protective type, and he hardly ever holds me back
from pursuing various interests, and he personally dislikes having to
have me adhere to certain conditions in order to head out for a
viewing.

I'd appreciate any suggestions or insights anyone might have about
this issue.

On 10/02/03 10:27 +0900, Mick wrote:

It seems everything you wrote is designed to bring attention to you and not
offer any advice. I highly doubt much of what you say is true..IMHO

And your post isn't bringing attention to you? Am I the only one
who gets the idea that you're stalking Cathy? She can't seem to
get a word in here without you offering some sort of negative
comment.

trane
--
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// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
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