Mars Rovers power dwindling...why?

On a sunny day (Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:41:34 -0800) it happened "Chosp"
wrote in UmO1c.16414$h23.10028@fed1read06:



"JP" == Jan Panteltje writes:

JP On a sunny day (03 Mar 2004 10:40:31 -0500) it happened Joseph
JP Lazio wrote in
JP :

Every gram of a Dust Removal System that you put on the rover is
one less gram that can be used for scientific instrumentation.

JP You have a math problem. With the wind shield wiper added, the
JP mission could last indefinite.

If the dust is electrostatically attracted to the surface of the solar cells
*IF* is no good, there is NO reason why there should be electrostatic effects
as the ground is WET and teh rover metal, it would be grounded.
Even in such a case that could be fixed by a thin conductive layer.
Any static electricity should have been detected somehow.
If you refer to stuff sticking together, even the most blind would now know
it is moist.
NOT electorstatic stuff.
And it is really hards to 'scratch' unless you are a moron designer.
And even scratches would not decrease light much.




It is not infinity under any circumstances. Quit bull****ting.
Dust on the solar arrays are not the only limiting factor.
You are the one who is statically bull****ting here, get some electric
based eduction, and a mechanical one would not hurt too,
borrow some common sense, play with a piece of rubber.
Enough of all this.
You do not believe there is life out there?
Or do not WANT to find life out there?
It makes no difference to life out thre, 'trust me'.

Jan Panteltje wrote in
:

On a sunny day (Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:41:34 -0800) it happened "Chosp"
wrote in UmO1c.16414$h23.10028@fed1read06:



"JP" == Jan Panteltje writes:

JP On a sunny day (03 Mar 2004 10:40:31 -0500) it happened Joseph
JP Lazio wrote in
JP :

Every gram of a Dust Removal System that you put on the rover is
one less gram that can be used for scientific instrumentation.

snipped to permit hot air to escape

Stop wasting time discussing this purely academic issue! They set a 90-
day mission length as a parameter, and designed the arrays to meet that
target. Looks like they succeeded as MER-A is still going strong at
over 60 days.

Mark

Dear Chosp:

"Chosp" wrote in message
news:UmO1c.16414$h23.10028@fed1read06...
....
It might merely increase the electrostatic attraction. An air blower
for the surface area of Rover solar panels in such a low pressure
environment is considerably more complex than it might seem at
first glance. Especially when every gram of mass counts heavily
and the engineers barely had enough time to build and test what they
actually sent.

No arguments. Just curious if you ever heard of a bimorph fan? Back in
the 70's I got a sample of a PVDF film that was "cured" under a strong
electric field (Pennwalt at the time). The result is a sheet of material
that gets just a little shorter or longer if voltage is applied. Couple
two sheets that are similarly polarized, and the sheet curls. Apply AC,
and you have a fan. No rotating parts, and extremely light.

Now I'm sure there is an AC outlet somewhere on Mars! ;}

Seriously though just moving "air" would be of little help. The air would
need to carry a charge...

David A. Smith

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" wrote:

No arguments. Just curious if you ever heard of a bimorph fan? Back in
the 70's I got a sample of a PVDF film that was "cured" under a strong
electric field (Pennwalt at the time). The result is a sheet of material
that gets just a little shorter or longer if voltage is applied. Couple
two sheets that are similarly polarized, and the sheet curls. Apply AC,
and you have a fan. No rotating parts, and extremely light.

Now I'm sure there is an AC outlet somewhere on Mars! ;}

Seriously though just moving "air" would be of little help. The air would
need to carry a charge...

Coat that bimorph with polonium to discharge static electricity with
its radiation and you might have a serviceable broom. Then you need
to attach it to a tiny rover that craws all over the solar panels like
one of those robot lawn mowers or carpet sweepers and then goes to its
receptacle to recharge. The rover needs a cleaner rover.

--
John Popelish

Dear John Popelish:

"John Popelish" wrote in message
...
"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" wrote:

No arguments. Just curious if you ever heard of a bimorph fan? Back
in
the 70's I got a sample of a PVDF film that was "cured" under a strong
electric field (Pennwalt at the time). The result is a sheet of
material
that gets just a little shorter or longer if voltage is applied.
Couple
two sheets that are similarly polarized, and the sheet curls. Apply
AC,
and you have a fan. No rotating parts, and extremely light.

Now I'm sure there is an AC outlet somewhere on Mars! ;}

Seriously though just moving "air" would be of little help. The air
would
need to carry a charge...

Coat that bimorph with polonium to discharge static electricity with
its radiation and you might have a serviceable broom. Then you need
to attach it to a tiny rover that craws all over the solar panels like
one of those robot lawn mowers or carpet sweepers and then goes to its
receptacle to recharge. The rover needs a cleaner rover.

Not a bad idea. I'd not want enough radioactive material to do any good
(for months) sitting around spraying beta radiation on nearby circuitry.

But you could just add a DC-DC converter and operate the bimorph off of a
high DC voltage (for corona formation) with just enough AC overlaid to get
the necessary movement. Or even just a spark gap...

David A. Smith

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" wrote:

Dear John Popelish:

"John Popelish" wrote in message
...

Coat that bimorph with polonium to discharge static electricity with
its radiation and you might have a serviceable broom. Then you need
to attach it to a tiny rover that craws all over the solar panels like
one of those robot lawn mowers or carpet sweepers and then goes to its
receptacle to recharge. The rover needs a cleaner rover.

Not a bad idea. I'd not want enough radioactive material to do any good
(for months) sitting around spraying beta radiation on nearby circuitry.

But you could just add a DC-DC converter and operate the bimorph off of a
high DC voltage (for corona formation) with just enough AC overlaid to get
the necessary movement. Or even just a spark gap...

You wouldn't want to make any rfi that would interfere with the
communication channels or other rover operations. I think polonium is
a pretty good compromise between simplicity, power consumption, rfi
and safety. Getting the mini rover back on top if it fell off would
be the hard part.

--
John Popelish

On a sunny day (Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:11:27 -0600) it happened mlm
wrote in :

Jan Panteltje wrote in
:

On a sunny day (Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:41:34 -0800) it happened "Chosp"
wrote in UmO1c.16414$h23.10028@fed1read06:



"JP" == Jan Panteltje writes:

JP On a sunny day (03 Mar 2004 10:40:31 -0500) it happened Joseph
JP Lazio wrote in
JP :

Every gram of a Dust Removal System that you put on the rover is
one less gram that can be used for scientific instrumentation.

snipped to permit hot air to escape

Stop wasting time discussing this purely academic issue! They set a 90-
day mission length as a parameter, and designed the arrays to meet that
target. Looks like they succeeded as MER-A is still going strong at
over 60 days.

Mark
Waisting time? Wake up NASA!
Same time waisted when discussing 'no transmit during decent, when it crashed last time.
**** off