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On 13 Aug, 14:24, Darwin123 wrote:
On Aug 12, 4:00*am, JT wrote: So was there a reddish star in Sirius C (now a brown dwarf) or is it just myth. * * *Some references in the ancient world refer to Sirius as a red star. 1) * * The early references to a "red Sirius" may be due to an atmospheric effect. The observations were usually made when Sirius was near the horizon, where optical scattering would make it look reddish. 2) * *The references to "red Sirius" may be poetic allusions to ritual and myth. Of course, people in those days would see it as white. However, the red referred to perceived violence in the rituals. 3) * *The references to a red Sirius may have been true at that time. Sirius may have changed color in recent times, going from red to white. * * * * I am strongly biased toward possibility number 2. This hypothesis is presented in the book: "The Golden Bough" by Sir James George Frazier, first published in 1922 by the Macmillan Company. * * Frazier points out that Sirius was taken very seriously in ritual.. It's was used as an indicator of the change in seasons, to represent the summer season. In Europe it was blamed as the deity that was drying out the plants during the summer, sort of like a white vampire drawing the blood out of the world. It was used as an indicator of the Egyptian harvesting season, when red ripe crops were collected. Thus, the references to red Sirius were symbolic. * * "Red Sirius may actually refer to sacrifices performed to Sirius. Frazier points out that the Romans burnt alive red haired puppies in honor of Sirius. The idea was that Sirius was such a monster, it needed blood colored dogs to stay alive. The early Egyptians, according to Frazier, practiced human sacrifice to support the crops. Thus, the rise of Sirius was a very bloody event. The Babylonians were also afraid of Sirius as an evil deity. Sirius is a deity that has to be appeased, not a ball of gas that has to be named. * * The "red" would refer to the bloodiness of the rituals, not the actual color of the star. Sirius needed blood to be satiated. Thus, "red Sirius" would be better translated as "bloody Sirius." * *Frazier's overall hypothesis is that magical rituals affect mythology, rather than the other way around. He may be wrong occasionally. His worse feature as a scholar is his neglect of references. I have no original references to compare to his hypothesis. * * * Does anyone have a literal translation of some ancient text where Sirius is referred to as red? Posting this translation could be helpful. Was the reference an actual description by some ancient astronomer, or a poem about the sky? * * Also useful would be more detailed descriptions of the rituals used to appease Sirius. Were they always done at dawn or twilight? If so, it would be no wonder that Sirius was referred to as a red star. At dawn or twilight, stars get this reddish look due to scattering. Look at our sun. If the rituals were done when Sirius is high in the sky, I would have to reject the light scattering hypothesis. * * Ancient peoples were no better and no worse as observers than the modern peoples. However, modern peoples also make mistakes. *Please note that our own sun today is called a yellow star. However, if you just look at the sun, you will see that it never appears yellow. The term yellow refers to some details in the spectrum that our eyes are not sensitive enough to see. So people still use imprecise language when describing the color of astronomical bodies. One reference to Sirius being red is not going to convince me of there being a true color change unless there was more context associated with the statement. What do you think about my assertion that Sirius B's strong gravity pull particles and gas from Sirius A and when enough mass collected a nuclear process will make Sirius B burst up as nova again and again. Maybe with very narrov intervalls ans maybe as recent as a couple thousand years ago. If that is the case it will happen again and maybe soon. I would like a comment on the plausibility of my assertion, from anyone who knows anything about astrophysic, but please read the text i refered to and check if it is a correct theory about binary stars that he propose. JT |
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On 14 Aug, 11:12, JT wrote:
On 13 Aug, 14:24, Darwin123 wrote: On Aug 12, 4:00*am, JT wrote: So was there a reddish star in Sirius C (now a brown dwarf) or is it just myth. * * *Some references in the ancient world refer to Sirius as a red star. 1) * * The early references to a "red Sirius" may be due to an atmospheric effect. The observations were usually made when Sirius was near the horizon, where optical scattering would make it look reddish. 2) * *The references to "red Sirius" may be poetic allusions to ritual and myth. Of course, people in those days would see it as white. However, the red referred to perceived violence in the rituals. 3) * *The references to a red Sirius may have been true at that time. Sirius may have changed color in recent times, going from red to white. * * * * I am strongly biased toward possibility number 2. This hypothesis is presented in the book: "The Golden Bough" by Sir James George Frazier, first published in 1922 by the Macmillan Company. * * Frazier points out that Sirius was taken very seriously in ritual. It's was used as an indicator of the change in seasons, to represent the summer season. In Europe it was blamed as the deity that was drying out the plants during the summer, sort of like a white vampire drawing the blood out of the world. It was used as an indicator of the Egyptian harvesting season, when red ripe crops were collected. Thus, the references to red Sirius were symbolic. * * "Red Sirius may actually refer to sacrifices performed to Sirius. Frazier points out that the Romans burnt alive red haired puppies in honor of Sirius. The idea was that Sirius was such a monster, it needed blood colored dogs to stay alive. The early Egyptians, according to Frazier, practiced human sacrifice to support the crops. Thus, the rise of Sirius was a very bloody event. The Babylonians were also afraid of Sirius as an evil deity. Sirius is a deity that has to be appeased, not a ball of gas that has to be named. * * The "red" would refer to the bloodiness of the rituals, not the actual color of the star. Sirius needed blood to be satiated. Thus, "red Sirius" would be better translated as "bloody Sirius." * *Frazier's overall hypothesis is that magical rituals affect mythology, rather than the other way around. He may be wrong occasionally. His worse feature as a scholar is his neglect of references. I have no original references to compare to his hypothesis. * * * Does anyone have a literal translation of some ancient text where Sirius is referred to as red? Posting this translation could be helpful. Was the reference an actual description by some ancient astronomer, or a poem about the sky? * * Also useful would be more detailed descriptions of the rituals used to appease Sirius. Were they always done at dawn or twilight? If so, it would be no wonder that Sirius was referred to as a red star. At dawn or twilight, stars get this reddish look due to scattering. Look at our sun. If the rituals were done when Sirius is high in the sky, I would have to reject the light scattering hypothesis. * * Ancient peoples were no better and no worse as observers than the modern peoples. However, modern peoples also make mistakes. *Please note that our own sun today is called a yellow star. However, if you just look at the sun, you will see that it never appears yellow. The term yellow refers to some details in the spectrum that our eyes are not sensitive enough to see. So people still use imprecise language when describing the color of astronomical bodies. One reference to Sirius being red is not going to convince me of there being a true color change unless there was more context associated with the statement. What do you think about my assertion that Sirius B's strong gravity pull particles and gas from Sirius A and when enough mass collected a nuclear process will make Sirius B burst up as nova again and again. Maybe with very *narrov intervalls ans maybe as recent as a couple thousand years ago. If that is the case it will happen again and maybe soon. I would like a comment on the plausibility of my assertion, from anyone who knows anything about astrophysic, but please read the text i refered to and check if it is a correct theory about binary stars that he propose. JT- Dölj citerad text - - Visa citerad text - http://iopscience.iop.org/0004-637X/...566_2_1084.pdf |
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On 10-08-14 02:15 AM, JT wrote:
On 13 Aug, 16:12, Yousuf wrote: On 13/08/2010 5:25 AM, JT wrote: Does the dust mean that Sirius B draws matter from Sirius A's acrcretion disc? I guess it really does not matter where it comes from but it tells that Sirius B is fed new material, maybe this can cause it go Nova in intervalls. The dust in the system probably came from Sirius B itself when it died. It's believed that Sirius A captured a lot of Sirius B's gas and dust while it was dying, and that's why Sirius A has a lot of metallicity -- more than a star of its size should have. But when a main sequence star like Sirius A captures gas and dust, it doesn't go nova, it just becomes a bigger main sequence star. Yousuf Khan I think you misread the article Yousuf it is not the Main Star that goes nova again and again, it is the highly gravitational white dwarf that collect matter from the prime star. When enough matter is collected on the surface a nuclear reaction will occur and it will burst up in Nova. JT Not at all, reread my paragraph again. I'm saying that the dust came from the white dwarf, i.e. Sirius B, just before it died. It's not coming from Sirius A. Main sequence stars don't produce dust, dying stars do. There's only two events in the life of a stellar system where there is a lot of dust in the system. The first time is when the system was first born. The second time is when one of the stars in the system dies or is about to die. Yousuf Khan |
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On 10-08-14 02:11 AM, JT wrote:
On 13 Aug, 16:06, Yousuf wrote: On 13/08/2010 5:13 AM, JT wrote: Well then to my other part of questioning in the other quote, can binary system go Nova periodically is it possible Sirius B can pick draw matter from Sirius A and burst up as a Nova periodically again and again? That might happen someday, millions or billions of years from now, but not yet. Sirius A is still in its main sequence phase, meaning that it is tight and compact and not loose and bloated. But eventually it will become a red giant where it would become loose and bloated, and at that point depending on how close Sirius B is in relation to it, Sir-B white dwarf might be able to steal gas off of the Sir-A red giant. Well that is not how i read the article, as i understand it the ***highly gravitational*** white dwarf Sirius steals gas dust from Sirius A accreation disc. When enough gas and dust taken there will be a nuclear reaction on *******WHITE DWARF******** and it will flame up going Nova. That is why it goes nova periodically, this only happen in binary system. There is no evidence that anything in Sirius is going nova, you can't believe everything some website tells you; at the very least they're probably using old information. The two Sirius stars are at least 20 AU apart, which is the distance between the Sun and Neptune. If you think about how the Sun would look like from Neptune, it would look like a very bright pinpoint, but way too far away to draw any gas from it. Sirius A is only slightly bigger than the Sun, which still doesn't make a difference at those distances. You'd have to be way less than 1 AU apart to draw any gas. When the Sun goes red giant it is expected to expand out to the current orbit of the Earth, 1 AU. Something similar will happen to Sirius A too. Believe me, if there was an accretion disk around one of the Sirius stars, you'd easily know it as the disk would shine in X-rays and ultraviolet. Or maybe you beleive all the historical myths of a red giant star in Sirius is simpy myth? No, there definitely was a red giant Sirius B millions of years ago, and there definitely will be a red giant Sirius A millions of years from now. But nothing is red right now in that system. Well it is not only the dogon who refer to Sirius B as a read star, i understand that you think the story about red sirius been told by a western antropolog. But Sirius is a red star even in Mayan and Egyptian culture, so how did they now Sirius once was red ***you claim*** 50 million years ago. It seem farfetched. As others have pointed out, there are plenty of cultural and optical reasons why Sirius could appear to be red. All of the cultures you cited lived close to the equator, where perhaps Sirius only appears close to the horizon where atmospheric scattering causes a red appearance. To me, with my naked eye I can barely make out the red color of Mars, everything else appears to be white or yellow. The unaided human eye is not likely the best tool for picking out colours of distant point sources. Spectrographic analysis only shows Sirius A is a yellow-white star. Hotter and a bit more massive than the Sun. A red star would be cooler than the Sun. When you go towards the blue, you are getting hotter, and when you go towards the red you are getting cooler. I know nothing about astrology but i am rather good on put together fact from different sources and draw new conclusion from it, to me it seems that Sirius B really draws dust and gas from Sirius A's accreation disc. This means we have a white dwarf that now and then flame up in Nova. JT This is *not* astrology, this is astronomy, a real quantitative science. It is fine to put together information from different sources, however you need to verify the facts from those sources. Information from ancient sources should be put in perspective when comparing against modern sources. Ancients didn't have telescopes orbiting in space. Hell, ancients didn't have telescopes, period. It's not to say that everything the ancients said was wrong. But you have to put in perspective what was possible back then vs. now. If an ancient says Sirius is red, but an orbiting space telescope tells you it's yellow. Who do you believe? You have to award the more convincing case to the orbiting telescope. The ancient's perspective may still be right given an atmospheric scattering modifier. Yousuf Khan |
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On 14 Aug, 19:48, Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 10-08-14 02:11 AM, JT wrote: On 13 Aug, 16:06, Yousuf *wrote: On 13/08/2010 5:13 AM, JT wrote: Well then to my other part of questioning in the other quote, can binary system go Nova periodically is it possible Sirius B can pick draw matter from Sirius A and burst up as a Nova periodically again and again? That might happen someday, millions or billions of years from now, but not yet. Sirius A is still in its main sequence phase, meaning that it is tight and compact and not loose and bloated. But eventually it will become a red giant where it would become loose and bloated, and at that point depending on how close Sirius B is in relation to it, Sir-B white dwarf might be able to steal gas off of the Sir-A red giant. Well that is not how i read the article, as i understand it the ***highly gravitational*** white dwarf Sirius steals gas dust from Sirius A accreation disc. When enough gas and dust taken there will be a nuclear reaction on *******WHITE DWARF******** and it will flame up going Nova. That is why it goes nova periodically, this only happen in binary system. There is no evidence that anything in Sirius is going nova, you can't believe everything some website tells you; at the very least they're probably using old information. The two Sirius stars are at least 20 AU apart, which is the distance between the Sun and Neptune. If you think about how the Sun would look like from Neptune, it would look like a very bright pinpoint, but way too far away to draw any gas from it. Sirius A is only slightly bigger than the Sun, which still doesn't make a difference at those distances. You'd have to be way less than 1 AU apart to draw any gas. When the Sun goes red giant it is expected to expand out to the current orbit of the Earth, 1 AU. Something similar will happen to Sirius A too. Believe me, if there was an accretion disk around one of the Sirius stars, you'd easily know it as the disk would shine in X-rays and ultraviolet. Or maybe you beleive all the historical myths of a red giant star in Sirius is simpy myth? No, there definitely was a red giant Sirius B millions of years ago, and there definitely will be a red giant Sirius A millions of years from now. But nothing is red right now in that system. Well it is not only the dogon who refer to Sirius B as a read star, i understand that you think the story about red sirius been told by a western antropolog. But Sirius is a red star even in Mayan and Egyptian culture, so how did they now Sirius once was red ***you claim*** 50 million years ago. It seem farfetched. As others have pointed out, there are plenty of cultural and optical reasons why Sirius could appear to be red. All of the cultures you cited lived close to the equator, where perhaps Sirius only appears close to the horizon where atmospheric scattering causes a red appearance. To me, with my naked eye I can barely make out the red color of Mars, everything else appears to be white or yellow. The unaided human eye is not likely the best tool for picking out colours of distant point sources.. Spectrographic analysis only shows Sirius A is a yellow-white star. Hotter and a bit more massive than the Sun. A red star would be cooler than the Sun. When you go towards the blue, you are getting hotter, and when you go towards the red you are getting cooler. I know nothing about astrology but i am rather good on put together fact from different sources and draw new conclusion from it, to me it seems that Sirius B really draws dust and gas from Sirius A's accreation disc. This means we have a white dwarf that now and then flame up in Nova. JT This is *not* astrology, this is astronomy, a real quantitative science. It is fine to put together information from different sources, however you need to verify the facts from those sources. Information from ancient sources should be put in perspective when comparing against modern sources. Ancients didn't have telescopes orbiting in space. Hell, ancients didn't have telescopes, period. It's not to say that everything the ancients said was wrong. But you have to put in perspective what was possible back then vs. now. If an ancient says Sirius is red, but an orbiting space telescope tells you it's yellow. Who do you believe? I argue that it had may been red and pulled mass from Sirius A but you say it is impossible. Well history will tell who was right and wrong. I do not have much data but the average AU is said to be 19.8 and closest 8 AU 1994 and 2044, but sirius B is no ordinary white dwarf as i read about it. it have astonishing mass per cubic cm if i read correct. and maybe there is not just the two objects that cause the Nova. But if you say that 1 AU is the distance for Sirius B to steal matter from Sirius A i have to beleive you until i read otherwise. You have to award the more convincing case to the orbiting telescope. The ancient's perspective may still be right given an atmospheric scattering modifier. Well i do not have the knowledge on which distance á white dwarf is able to pull matter from á binary star so i go with your numer 1 AU until i find it refuted from other source. Well anyway 2015 i guess will be the year we find out more about Novas anyway. JT * * * * Yousuf Khan- Dölj citerad text - - Visa citerad text - |
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On 14 Aug, 18:07, Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 10-08-14 02:15 AM, JT wrote: On 13 Aug, 16:12, Yousuf *wrote: On 13/08/2010 5:25 AM, JT wrote: Does the dust mean that Sirius B draws matter from Sirius A's acrcretion disc? I guess it really does not matter where it comes from but it tells that Sirius B is fed new material, maybe this can cause it go Nova in intervalls. The dust in the system probably came from Sirius B itself when it died.. It's believed that Sirius A captured a lot of Sirius B's gas and dust while it was dying, and that's why Sirius A has a lot of metallicity -- more than a star of its size should have. But when a main sequence star like Sirius A captures gas and dust, it doesn't go nova, it just becomes a bigger main sequence star. * * * * *Yousuf Khan I think you misread the article Yousuf it is not the Main Star that goes nova again and again, it is the highly gravitational white dwarf that collect matter from the prime star. When enough matter is collected on the surface a nuclear reaction will occur and it will burst up in Nova. JT Not at all, reread my paragraph again. I'm saying that the dust came from the white dwarf, i.e. Sirius B, just before it died. It's not coming from Sirius A. Main sequence stars don't produce dust, dying stars do. There's only two events in the life of a stellar system where there is a lot of dust in the system. The first time is when the system was first born. The second time is when one of the stars in the system dies or is about to die. * * * * Yousuf Khan- Dölj citerad text - - Visa citerad text - Well this you certainly did read wrong, what the article says is that Binary Systems white dwarfs may pull matter from the prime star in this case Sirius A. So Sirius B pull matter from Sirius A and is able to go Nova if the star Sirius A is overflowing its roche lobe. So please read again until you understand.. What was your 1 AU estimated on the roche lobe? JT |
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On 10-08-14 05:27 PM, JT wrote:
Well this you certainly did read wrong, what the article says is that Binary Systems white dwarfs may pull matter from the prime star in this case Sirius A. If the article said Sirius B is pulling gas off of Sirius A, then it is wrong. As I said, they are 20 AU apart, way too far to affect each other like that. White dwarfs can pull gas off of companion stars, but they have to be close in, and the Sirius system doesn't fit that description. So Sirius B pull matter from Sirius A and is able to go Nova if the star Sirius A is overflowing its roche lobe. So please read again until you understand.. What was your 1 AU estimated on the roche lobe? A Roche Limit is mainly something applied to planetary bodies (i.e. solid or liquid), not stars. It requires a rigidity factor to be factored in, and there aren't good numbers for gaseous bodies like gas planets or stars. The rigidity factor depends on density of the objects. However, general rules of thumb apply and that usually means that the two stars have to be at least within 1 AU of each other to affect each other to the point of pulling material off of each other. Sirius doesn't qualify. If you want to pull material off of a star at 20 AU you need at least a galactic-scale supermassive blackhole. Yousuf Khan |
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On 14/08/2010 5:21 PM, JT wrote:
On 14 Aug, 19:48, Yousuf wrote: It's not to say that everything the ancients said was wrong. But you have to put in perspective what was possible back then vs. now. If an ancient says Sirius is red, but an orbiting space telescope tells you it's yellow. Who do you believe? I argue that it had may been red and pulled mass from Sirius A but you say it is impossible. Not impossible, highly unlikely. And there are more reasons than just the distance working against this theory. A nova would be a highly energetic event, so any light it would produce would have to be more blue than red. Blue is hotter than yellow. Yellow is hotter than orange. Orange is hotter than red. Well history will tell who was right and wrong. I do not have much data but the average AU is said to be 19.8 and closest 8 AU 1994 and 2044, but sirius B is no ordinary white dwarf as i read about it. it have astonishing mass per cubic cm if i read correct. and maybe there is not just the two objects that cause the Nova. All white dwarfs have extremely high density, that's what makes them white dwarfs. However, Sirius B is one of the biggest known white dwarfs, with nearly as much mass as the Sun. If it was only 0.4 solar masses heavier, then it would've been a neutron star rather than a white dwarf. But if you say that 1 AU is the distance for Sirius B to steal matter from Sirius A i have to beleive you until i read otherwise. That's a rule of thumb, and it's more likely it has to be even closer than that. You have to award the more convincing case to the orbiting telescope. The ancient's perspective may still be right given an atmospheric scattering modifier. Well i do not have the knowledge on which distance á white dwarf is able to pull matter from á binary star so i go with your numer 1 AU until i find it refuted from other source. Well anyway 2015 i guess will be the year we find out more about Novas anyway. There are much better candidates for nova watching than Sirius. Look up the term, "recurrent nova", and especially look up the star system known as "U Scorpii", it's already erupted several times since 1863 including once earlier this year (1863, 1906, 1936, 1979, 1987, 1999, and 2010). It's been observed so often, that scientists actually predicted that it would go off sometime this year. Yousuf Khan |
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On 15 Aug, 01:08, Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 14/08/2010 5:21 PM, JT wrote: On 14 Aug, 19:48, Yousuf *wrote: It's not to say that everything the ancients said was wrong. But you have to put in perspective what was possible back then vs. now. If an ancient says Sirius is red, but an orbiting space telescope tells you it's yellow. Who do you believe? I argue that it had may been red and pulled mass from Sirius A but you say it is impossible. Not impossible, highly unlikely. And there are more reasons than just the distance working against this theory. A nova would be a highly energetic event, so any light it would produce would have to be more blue than red. Blue is hotter than yellow. Yellow is hotter than orange. Orange is hotter than red. Well history will tell who was right and wrong. I do not have much data but the average AU is said to be 19.8 and closest *8 AU 1994 and 2044, but sirius B is no ordinary white dwarf as i read about it. it have astonishing mass per cubic cm if i read correct. and maybe there is not just the two objects that cause the Nova. All white dwarfs have extremely high density, that's what makes them white dwarfs. However, Sirius B is one of the biggest known white dwarfs, with nearly as much mass as the Sun. If it was only 0.4 solar masses heavier, then it would've been a neutron star rather than a white dwarf. But if you say that 1 AU is the distance for Sirius B to steal matter from Sirius A i have to beleive you until i read otherwise. That's a rule of thumb, and it's more likely it has to be even closer than that. You have to award the more convincing case to the orbiting telescope. The ancient's perspective may still be right given an atmospheric scattering modifier. Well i do not have the knowledge on which distance *á white dwarf is able to pull matter from á binary star so i go with your numer 1 AU until i find it refuted from other source. Well anyway 2015 i guess will be the year we find out more about Novas anyway. There are much better candidates for nova watching than Sirius. Look up the term, "recurrent nova", and especially look up the star system known as "U Scorpii", it's already erupted several times since 1863 including once earlier this year (1863, 1906, 1936, 1979, 1987, 1999, and 2010). It's been observed so often, that scientists actually predicted that it would go off sometime this year. * * * * Yousuf Khan Well maybe i am just hooked on an idea that Sirius B going nova again and again, if it would how big would it be in the sky? Three to ten times our Sun i guess even bigger, or just a red star object? JT JT |
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On 15 Aug, 01:08, Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 14/08/2010 5:21 PM, JT wrote: On 14 Aug, 19:48, Yousuf *wrote: It's not to say that everything the ancients said was wrong. But you have to put in perspective what was possible back then vs. now. If an ancient says Sirius is red, but an orbiting space telescope tells you it's yellow. Who do you believe? I argue that it had may been red and pulled mass from Sirius A but you say it is impossible. Not impossible, highly unlikely. And there are more reasons than just the distance working against this theory. A nova would be a highly energetic event, so any light it would produce would have to be more blue than red. Blue is hotter than yellow. Yellow is hotter than orange. Orange is hotter than red. Well history will tell who was right and wrong. I do not have much data but the average AU is said to be 19.8 and closest *8 AU 1994 and 2044, but sirius B is no ordinary white dwarf as i read about it. it have astonishing mass per cubic cm if i read correct. and maybe there is not just the two objects that cause the Nova. All white dwarfs have extremely high density, that's what makes them white dwarfs. However, Sirius B is one of the biggest known white dwarfs, with nearly as much mass as the Sun. If it was only 0.4 solar masses heavier, then it would've been a neutron star rather than a white dwarf. But if you say that 1 AU is the distance for Sirius B to steal matter from Sirius A i have to beleive you until i read otherwise. That's a rule of thumb, and it's more likely it has to be even closer than that. You have to award the more convincing case to the orbiting telescope. The ancient's perspective may still be right given an atmospheric scattering modifier. Well i do not have the knowledge on which distance *á white dwarf is able to pull matter from á binary star so i go with your numer 1 AU until i find it refuted from other source. Well anyway 2015 i guess will be the year we find out more about Novas anyway. There are much better candidates for nova watching than Sirius. Look up the term, "recurrent nova", and especially look up the star system known as "U Scorpii", it's already erupted several times since 1863 including once earlier this year (1863, 1906, 1936, 1979, 1987, 1999, and 2010). It's been observed so often, that scientists actually predicted that it would go off sometime this year. * * * * Yousuf Khan It is interesting to see how the 13th and 14the centurys black plague also was plagued with Vaticans hunt for Necromancers and Witches, maybe radiation toasted alot of brains, left earth with alot of numb zoombies and they caretakers that Vatican falsly took for necromancers. JT |
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