Touchy subjects at public events

Allison Kirkpatrick wrote:
I sure as hell wouldn't offer to make a retraction just because some
stupid, error-plagued 2000 year old book said something was so
(assuming the bible was actually written that long ago, and not by
Shakespeare five hundred years ago).

If you were more familiar with the history of the Bible, you would have
known that parchments were discovered in Israel, which were dated to
2000 years or older, using the *SCIENTIFIC* process of carbon dating.

The contents of these texts agree very accurately to their corresponding
sections in the modern-day Bible translations. The essence of the Bible
has not changed, despite numerous translations and duplication over
centuries. The errors you mention does not invalidate the central
message at all.

As to the idea of a 6000 year old Earth - it dates back to a Bishop
Usher, who live in the 1700s or thereabouts, and used the register of
people mentioned in the Bible, and calculated backward the time when
Earth must have been created. It comes down to something like October
23 4004 BC. Me being an 'Old Earth Creationist' myself, I don't accept
this either as the truth. The date when Earth was created is not
written in the Bible explicitly, and trying to figure it out using the
Bible is not important or useful.

What is important is that the God of the Bible created the Universe,
Earth and Man.

And you are free not to believe that... - no hard feelings.

I once told some people who were looking at the Andromeda galaxy through my
binoculars and my C-8 that the light that was entering their eyes has been
traveling through space for two million years.

It didn't take long for somebody to tell me that was not possible,
because..."According to the WORD OF GOD, the light could only have existed for
6,000 years."

Respectfully,
It is sort of a no-brainer to make a statement like that in a public forum.
Much like political commentary here.

Anything seen bickered about in this forum, should be expected to be a touchy
subject at public viewing events.

During public events, folks at the ep will have the most out of the experience
if focussed on observing. What, where and how to see stuff. You know,
observational amatuer astronomy in pratice.

I usually just stick to that.....and how my telescopes are better than eveyone
else's.






john

"Doogie Hoosier" wrote in message
m...

It didn't take long for somebody to tell me that was not possible,
because..."According to the WORD OF GOD, the light could only have
existed for 6,000 years."

I told that person that if he wouldn't mind looking up that bit of
scripture and telling me where it was, I'd make a public retraction
the next time I had my scope out in public. He said he'd look it up
and give me a call. I wonder how long he looked for it.


This person really doesn't know his Biblical history. The Bible certainly
doesn't say that the universe is only 6000 years old. That figure was
calculated by James Usher, Archbishop of Armagh, Ireland (1581-1656).
Working backwards from the known date of the destruction of the temple in
Jerusalem, he added up all the genealogies given in the Old Testament, and
came up with 4004 BC as the date of "creation". The figure quickly gained
acceptance amongst "fundamentalist" Christians when Usher's notes were
published in 1909. That's where the "the universe is 6000 years old" story
comes from, not from the Bible itself.

Regards,

Chris

"mark d. doiron" wrote in message
.. .
"Doogie Hoosier" wrote in message
m...

It didn't take long for somebody to tell me that was
not possible, because..."According to the WORD
OF GOD, the light could only have existed for
6,000 years."

Doogie--

no matter how well-versed one may feel in either their scientific or
religous convictions, i find that there's no point for two folks in the
above situation to argue the issue. that's because neither has the
faintest
hope of budging the other, and there's lots of possibility of injured
feelings. therefore, i simply tell a person who mentions God's "word"
that
i can't explain why He choses to have the universe appear this way to our
science, but that's how it appears based on our current understanding.

clear, dark skies--

mark d.



Mark,

Truer words were never spoken! Another topic that should be considered
taboo on SAA is politics. The quickest and easiest way to start an all out
flame war here is to take sides with either of these topics. Let's make an
effort to keep these topics under cover.

Al

Doogie Hoosier wrote in message
m...

It didn't take long for somebody to tell me that was not possible,
because..."According to the WORD OF GOD, the light could only have
existed for 6,000 years."

Great troll! Although perhaps a bit too soon after the God and the
big bang troll.

Any other subjects known to be better left not broached at public
viewings? Like, maybe mentioning the revelation that almost got
Galileo burned alive when he looked at Jupiter?

Galileo will be burned alive on September 21st you moron.

In message , Davoud
writes
Doogie Hoosier:
...It didn't take long for somebody to tell me that was not possible,
because..."According to the WORD OF GOD, the light could only have
existed for 6,000 years..."

I don't argue with people like that. I tell them that they are entitled
to believe what they want to believe, but that a discussion of religion
is outside the scope of my presentation. If pressed, I may stand firm
on that, or I may add that *my* religion teaches that God did not tell
us directly when He created the Universe or the Earth. Instead, He
planted an enormous amount of evidence (some of it conflicting) that
would let us figure it out for ourselves if we were clever enough. So,
if God is not a liar -- if He didn't plant false evidence -- the
Universe is probably about 14 billion years old, and the Earth came
along about 4.5 billion years ago.

Otherwise the God of the Young Earth Creationists is in the same
situation as a dodgy antique dealer distressing his newly made furniture
to make it seem much older and more interesting.

An omnipotent God can potentially fake anything and everything with
arbitrary precision and at any time. It isn't a very appealing
explanation of the universe though. And it certainly isn't scientific.

"Creation Science" is one of the worst oxymorons of the 21st century.
They will drag us back to the Dark Ages given half a chance.
Fortunately, the problem of YEC is still largely confined to the USA.

Modern theologists have little difficulty with 20th century cosmology.

Regards,
--
Martin Brown

I haven't heard that one yet. Since the Bible's a big book, he was
probably at it quite a while. And serves him right for spouting something
without checking where he heard it.

I have heard one guy spouting conspiracy theories concerning the Face
on Mars, but I expected some of that during the Opposition season.

A couple of others tried to wrangle me into talking about the nature of
the Universe, particulary their "unique" theories about it, but I excused
myself by saying I had to stay on Mars, since I had to explain to viewers
what it was they were seeing.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never be afraid of trying something new for the love of it.
Remember... amateurs built the Ark.
Professionals built the Titanic!


----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Doogie Hoosier" wrote in message
m...
I once told some people who were looking at the Andromeda galaxy
through my binoculars and my C-8 that the light that was entering
their eyes has been traveling through space for two million years.

It didn't take long for somebody to tell me that was not possible,
because..."According to the WORD OF GOD, the light could only have
existed for 6,000 years."

I told that person that if he wouldn't mind looking up that bit of
scripture and telling me where it was, I'd make a public retraction
the next time I had my scope out in public. He said he'd look it up
and give me a call. I wonder how long he looked for it.

Any other subjects known to be better left not broached at public
viewings? Like, maybe mentioning the revelation that almost got
Galileo burned alive when he looked at Jupiter?

While there's no point in arguing with a creationist

You've got to keep in mind that the one thing that we, as scientifically minded
people, have to keep in mind is that creationism can't be disproved, one can
always argue that the "evidence" of it was placed there by whatever "god" one
happens to believe in. Of course, the fact that it can't be disproved also
means that it's in no way a scientific theory (which is a good avenue,
sometimes, when talking to people with some odd theories or asking about some
odd theories-- explaining the difference to them between a scientific theory
and a theory in the colloquial use of the word). And no, I'm no creationist in
case you only partially read or misread what I said. haha I believe that the
universe is older than 6,000 years and the some form of evolution has taken
place, just for the record. :-)

Victor wrote:

If you were more familiar with the history of the Bible, you would have
known that parchments were discovered in Israel, which were dated to
2000 years or older, using the *SCIENTIFIC* process of carbon dating.

Quite a lot older. And some of the Dead Sea scrolls have some VERY odd
parallels with the New testament, which is a neat trick.

The contents of these texts agree very accurately to their corresponding
sections in the modern-day Bible translations. The essence of the Bible
has not changed, despite numerous translations and duplication over
centuries. The errors you mention does not invalidate the central
message at all.

Can you explain this one then ? In my copy of King James Genesis 4

16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the
land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived......

Now since Cain is one of the two sons of the first man, where the heck
did Cain's wife come from ? ????


Steve
--
Steve Taylor
Technical Director
Astronomy Centre
http://www.astronomycentre.org.uk

I once told some people who were looking at the Andromeda galaxy
through my binoculars and my C-8 that the light that was entering
their eyes has been traveling through space for two million years.

at anza borrego i also told this very thing to about 30-40 people who were
viewing with my canon stablized 15-50's, and not one word other than hushed
awe, grins of delight, and hunger to imagine it. however, this is california.
as you know, only whackheads live here.
jc