The Battle for Marjah: US Must Win with Both Hands Tied Behind it's Back

On Feb 15, 8:12*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:


Someone seems to have untied those hands. But of course everyone knows
that Obama is so soft on terrorism and is unable to do anything in
Afghanistan. Hey, Ali, have you seen my rolladex? Or maybe Mr. Baradar
just likes to chat. Sans augment interrogation techniques. Pfffft!

February 19, 2010
In Blow to Taliban, 2 More Senior Leaders Are Arrested
By DEXTER FILKINS

KABUL, Afghanistan — Two senior Taliban leaders have been arrested in
recent days inside Pakistan, officials said Thursday, as American and
Pakistani intelligence agents continued to press their offensive
against the group’s leadership after the capture of the insurgency’s
military commander last month.

Afghan officials said the Taliban’s “shadow governors” for two
provinces in northern Afghanistan had been detained in Pakistan by
officials there. Mullah Abdul Salam, the Taliban’s leader in Kunduz,
was detained in the Pakistani city of Faisalabad, and Mullah Mir
Mohammed of Baghlan Province was also captured in an undisclosed
Pakistani city, they said.

The arrests come on the heels of the capture of Abdul Ghani Baradar,
the Taliban’s military commander and the deputy to Mullah Muhammad
Omar, the movement’s founder. Mr. Baradar was arrested in a joint
operation by the C.I.A. and the ISI, Pakistan’s military intelligence
agency.

The arrests were made by Pakistani officials, the Afghans said, but it
seemed probable that C.I.A. officers accompanied them, as they did in
the arrest of Mr. Baradar. Pakistani officials declined to comment.

Together, the three arrests mark the most significant blow to the
Taliban’s leadership since the American-backed war began eight years
ago. They also demonstrate the extent to which the Taliban’s senior
leaders have been able to use Pakistan as a sanctuary to plan and
mount attacks in Afghanistan.

A senior United States official, speaking on condition of anonymity,
said that the arrest of the two shadow governors was unrelated to Mr.
Baradar’s capture.

Even so, Muhammad Omar, the governor of Kunduz Province, said in an
interview that the two Taliban shadow governors maintained a close
working relationship with Mr. Baradar.

“Mullah Salam and Mullah Mohammed were the most merciless
individuals,” said Gen. Razaq Yaqoobi, police chief of Kunduz
Province. “Most of the terror, executions and other crimes committed
in northern Afghanistan were on their orders.”

The immediate impact of the arrests of the two Taliban governors was
unclear. In the short term, it could probably be expected to hurt the
Taliban’s operations somewhat and possibly demoralize their rank-and-
file fighters, but probably not for long. In the past the Taliban have
proved capable of quickly replacing their killed or captured leaders.

The three recent arrests — all in Pakistan — demonstrate a greater
level of cooperation by Pakistan in hunting leaders of the Afghan
Taliban than in the entire eight years of war. American officials have
complained bitterly since 2001 that the Pakistanis, while claiming to
be American allies and accepting American aid were simultaneously
providing sanctuary and assistance to Taliban fighters and leaders who
were battling the Americans across the border.

In conversations with American officials, Pakistani officials would
often claim not to know about the existence of the “Quetta Shura,” the
name given to the council of senior Taliban leaders that used the
Pakistani city of Quetta as a sanctuary for years. It was the Quetta
Shura — also known as the Supreme Council — that Mr. Baradar presided
over.

It is still far from clear, but senior commanders in Afghanistan say
they believe that the Pakistani military and intelligence agencies,
led by Gens. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and Ahmed Shuja Pasha, may finally
be coming around to the belief that the Taliban — in Pakistan and
Afghanistan — constitute a threat to the existence of the Pakistani
state.

“I believe that General Kayani and his leaders have come to the
conclusion that they want us to succeed,” a senior NATO officer in
Kabul said.

Word of the arrests of the shadow governors came as American, Afghan
and British forces continue to press ahead with their largest military
operation to date, in the Afghan agricultural town of Marja. Earlier
this month, on the eve of the Marja invasion, Afghan officials also
detained Marja’s shadow governor as he tried to flee the country.

The Taliban figures are commonly referred to as “shadow governors”
because their identities are secret and because they mirror the
legitimate governors appointed by the Afghan government. The Taliban’s
shadow governors oversee all military and political operations in a
given area.

Even before the arrests in Pakistan, the American and Afghan military
and intelligence services appeared to have been enjoying a run of
success against Taliban leaders inside Afghanistan.

The senior NATO officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said
American forces had detained or killed “three or four” Taliban
provincial governors in the past several weeks, including the
Taliban’s shadow governor for Laghman Province.

Another NATO officer, also speaking on the condition of anonymity,
said that Mullah Zakhir, the Taliban’s military commander for southern
Afghanistan, had been ordered back to Pakistan before the Marja
offensive.

Indeed, the capture of two Taliban governors inside Pakistan may
reflect the greater level of insecurity that all Taliban leaders are
feeling inside Afghanistan at the moment.

“The Taliban are feeling a new level of pain,” the senior NATO officer
said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/wo...gewanted=print

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
...
On Feb 15, 8:12 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:


Someone seems to have untied those hands. But of course everyone knows
that Obama is so soft on terrorism and is unable to do anything in
Afghanistan. Hey, Ali, have you seen my rolladex? Or maybe Mr. Baradar
just likes to chat. Sans augment interrogation techniques. Pfffft!

February 19, 2010
In Blow to Taliban, 2 More Senior Leaders Are Arrested
By DEXTER FILKINS

Well, remember that Clinton tended to defer to the military.
He was quoted as saying his lack of service meant he didn't
have enough credibility to ignore the Pentagon's advice.

I think the same thing is going on here. They seem to be applying
all the lessons learned in Iraq to this operation. It was clear
during most of Iraq that the Pentagon brass wanted more troops
and nation building then Bush/Cheney wanted.

So far so good. Hopefully our military has finally figured out
how to 'win the hearts and minds'.

And today I read the US claims to already have control over most
of they city. The paper also said the insurgents were forcing civilians
to stand in the windows and on the roofs of buildings they
were using to fire at our troops.


s





KABUL, Afghanistan - Two senior Taliban leaders have been arrested in
recent days inside Pakistan, officials said Thursday, as American and
Pakistani intelligence agents continued to press their offensive
against the group's leadership after the capture of the insurgency's
military commander last month.

Afghan officials said the Taliban's "shadow governors" for two
provinces in northern Afghanistan had been detained in Pakistan by
officials there. Mullah Abdul Salam, the Taliban's leader in Kunduz,
was detained in the Pakistani city of Faisalabad, and Mullah Mir
Mohammed of Baghlan Province was also captured in an undisclosed
Pakistani city, they said.

The arrests come on the heels of the capture of Abdul Ghani Baradar,
the Taliban's military commander and the deputy to Mullah Muhammad
Omar, the movement's founder. Mr. Baradar was arrested in a joint
operation by the C.I.A. and the ISI, Pakistan's military intelligence
agency.

The arrests were made by Pakistani officials, the Afghans said, but it
seemed probable that C.I.A. officers accompanied them, as they did in
the arrest of Mr. Baradar. Pakistani officials declined to comment.

Together, the three arrests mark the most significant blow to the
Taliban's leadership since the American-backed war began eight years
ago. They also demonstrate the extent to which the Taliban's senior
leaders have been able to use Pakistan as a sanctuary to plan and
mount attacks in Afghanistan.

A senior United States official, speaking on condition of anonymity,
said that the arrest of the two shadow governors was unrelated to Mr.
Baradar's capture.

Even so, Muhammad Omar, the governor of Kunduz Province, said in an
interview that the two Taliban shadow governors maintained a close
working relationship with Mr. Baradar.

"Mullah Salam and Mullah Mohammed were the most merciless
individuals," said Gen. Razaq Yaqoobi, police chief of Kunduz
Province. "Most of the terror, executions and other crimes committed
in northern Afghanistan were on their orders."

The immediate impact of the arrests of the two Taliban governors was
unclear. In the short term, it could probably be expected to hurt the
Taliban's operations somewhat and possibly demoralize their rank-and-
file fighters, but probably not for long. In the past the Taliban have
proved capable of quickly replacing their killed or captured leaders.

The three recent arrests - all in Pakistan - demonstrate a greater
level of cooperation by Pakistan in hunting leaders of the Afghan
Taliban than in the entire eight years of war. American officials have
complained bitterly since 2001 that the Pakistanis, while claiming to
be American allies and accepting American aid were simultaneously
providing sanctuary and assistance to Taliban fighters and leaders who
were battling the Americans across the border.

In conversations with American officials, Pakistani officials would
often claim not to know about the existence of the "Quetta Shura," the
name given to the council of senior Taliban leaders that used the
Pakistani city of Quetta as a sanctuary for years. It was the Quetta
Shura - also known as the Supreme Council - that Mr. Baradar presided
over.

It is still far from clear, but senior commanders in Afghanistan say
they believe that the Pakistani military and intelligence agencies,
led by Gens. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and Ahmed Shuja Pasha, may finally
be coming around to the belief that the Taliban - in Pakistan and
Afghanistan - constitute a threat to the existence of the Pakistani
state.

"I believe that General Kayani and his leaders have come to the
conclusion that they want us to succeed," a senior NATO officer in
Kabul said.

Word of the arrests of the shadow governors came as American, Afghan
and British forces continue to press ahead with their largest military
operation to date, in the Afghan agricultural town of Marja. Earlier
this month, on the eve of the Marja invasion, Afghan officials also
detained Marja's shadow governor as he tried to flee the country.

The Taliban figures are commonly referred to as "shadow governors"
because their identities are secret and because they mirror the
legitimate governors appointed by the Afghan government. The Taliban's
shadow governors oversee all military and political operations in a
given area.

Even before the arrests in Pakistan, the American and Afghan military
and intelligence services appeared to have been enjoying a run of
success against Taliban leaders inside Afghanistan.

The senior NATO officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said
American forces had detained or killed "three or four" Taliban
provincial governors in the past several weeks, including the
Taliban's shadow governor for Laghman Province.

Another NATO officer, also speaking on the condition of anonymity,
said that Mullah Zakhir, the Taliban's military commander for southern
Afghanistan, had been ordered back to Pakistan before the Marja
offensive.

Indeed, the capture of two Taliban governors inside Pakistan may
reflect the greater level of insecurity that all Taliban leaders are
feeling inside Afghanistan at the moment.

"The Taliban are feeling a new level of pain," the senior NATO officer
said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/wo...gewanted=print

On Feb 18, 8:07*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...
On Feb 15, 8:12 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:

Someone seems to have untied those hands. But of course everyone knows
that Obama is so soft on terrorism and is unable to do anything in
Afghanistan. Hey, Ali, have you seen my rolladex? Or maybe Mr. Baradar
just likes to chat. Sans augment interrogation techniques. Pfffft!
February 19, 2010
In Blow to Taliban, 2 More Senior Leaders Are Arrested
By DEXTER FILKINS

Well, remember that Clinton tended to defer to the military.
He was quoted as saying his lack of service meant he didn't
have enough credibility to ignore the Pentagon's advice.

I think the same thing is going on here. They seem to be applying
all the lessons learned in Iraq to this operation. It was clear
during most of Iraq that the Pentagon brass wanted more troops
and nation building then Bush/Cheney wanted.

The key may well have been McCain's opposition to Rumsfeld, who had
been behind the small footprint strategy, which worked great in
initial attack and capture of Iraq and Afghanistan but was criticised
fro too low a footprint after.

So far so good. Hopefully our military has finally figured out
how to 'win the hearts and minds'.

Agreed, and to combine it with the tactics that work in the field to
isolate guerrillas, drive off support, marginalize them and dry their
support base. Force them to either quit or stand in place in ground
where they can't move well enough to hit and run.

On Feb 18, 10:26*pm, "David E. Powell"
wrote:
On Feb 18, 8:07*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:



"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

....
On Feb 15, 8:12 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:

Someone seems to have untied those hands. But of course everyone knows
that Obama is so soft on terrorism and is unable to do anything in
Afghanistan. Hey, Ali, have you seen my rolladex? Or maybe Mr. Baradar
just likes to chat. Sans augment interrogation techniques. Pfffft!
February 19, 2010
In Blow to Taliban, 2 More Senior Leaders Are Arrested
By DEXTER FILKINS

Well, remember that Clinton tended to defer to the military.
He was quoted as saying his lack of service meant he didn't
have enough credibility to ignore the Pentagon's advice.

I think the same thing is going on here. They seem to be applying
all the lessons learned in Iraq to this operation. It was clear
during most of Iraq that the Pentagon brass wanted more troops
and nation building then Bush/Cheney wanted.

The key may well have been McCain's opposition to Rumsfeld, who had
been behind the small footprint strategy, which worked great in
initial attack and capture of Iraq and Afghanistan but was criticised
fro too low a footprint after.

So far so good. Hopefully our military has finally figured out
how to 'win the hearts and minds'.

Agreed, and to combine it with the tactics that work in the field to
isolate guerrillas, drive off support, marginalize them and dry their
support base. Force them to either quit or stand in place in ground
where they can't move well enough to hit and run.

Any sign that anybody in real contact with Rumsfeld and his 1930s idea
as to what constituted a war agreed with him? Other than to keep
getting promoted?

On Feb 18, 8:07*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...
On Feb 15, 8:12 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:

Someone seems to have untied those hands. But of course everyone knows
that Obama is so soft on terrorism and is unable to do anything in
Afghanistan. Hey, Ali, have you seen my rolladex? Or maybe Mr. Baradar
just likes to chat. Sans augment interrogation techniques. Pfffft!
February 19, 2010
In Blow to Taliban, 2 More Senior Leaders Are Arrested
By DEXTER FILKINS

Well, remember that Clinton tended to defer to the military.
He was quoted as saying his lack of service meant he didn't
have enough credibility to ignore the Pentagon's advice.

I think the same thing is going on here. They seem to be applying
all the lessons learned in Iraq to this operation. It was clear
during most of Iraq that the Pentagon brass wanted more troops
and nation building then Bush/Cheney wanted.

So far so good. Hopefully our military has finally figured out
how to 'win the hearts and minds'.

And today I read the US claims to already have control over most
of they city. *The paper also said the insurgents were forcing civilians
to stand in the windows and on the roofs of buildings they
were using to fire at our troops.

s

KABUL, Afghanistan - Two senior Taliban leaders have been arrested in
recent days inside Pakistan, officials said Thursday, as American and
Pakistani intelligence agents continued to press their offensive
against the group's leadership after the capture of the insurgency's
military commander last month.

Afghan officials said the Taliban's "shadow governors" for two
provinces in northern Afghanistan had been detained in Pakistan by
officials there. Mullah Abdul Salam, the Taliban's leader in Kunduz,
was detained in the Pakistani city of Faisalabad, and Mullah Mir
Mohammed of Baghlan Province was also captured in an undisclosed
Pakistani city, they said.

The arrests come on the heels of the capture of Abdul Ghani Baradar,
the Taliban's military commander and the deputy to Mullah Muhammad
Omar, the movement's founder. Mr. Baradar was arrested in a joint
operation by the C.I.A. and the ISI, Pakistan's military intelligence
agency.

The arrests were made by Pakistani officials, the Afghans said, but it
seemed probable that C.I.A. officers accompanied them, as they did in
the arrest of Mr. Baradar. Pakistani officials declined to comment.

Together, the three arrests mark the most significant blow to the
Taliban's leadership since the American-backed war began eight years
ago. They also demonstrate the extent to which the Taliban's senior
leaders have been able to use Pakistan as a sanctuary to plan and
mount attacks in Afghanistan.

A senior United States official, speaking on condition of anonymity,
said that the arrest of the two shadow governors was unrelated to Mr.
Baradar's capture.

Even so, Muhammad Omar, the governor of Kunduz Province, said in an
interview that the two Taliban shadow governors maintained a close
working relationship with Mr. Baradar.

"Mullah Salam and Mullah Mohammed were the most merciless
individuals," said Gen. Razaq Yaqoobi, police chief of Kunduz
Province. "Most of the terror, executions and other crimes committed
in northern Afghanistan were on their orders."

The immediate impact of the arrests of the two Taliban governors was
unclear. In the short term, it could probably be expected to hurt the
Taliban's operations somewhat and possibly demoralize their rank-and-
file fighters, but probably not for long. In the past the Taliban have
proved capable of quickly replacing their killed or captured leaders.

The three recent arrests - all in Pakistan - demonstrate a greater
level of cooperation by Pakistan in hunting leaders of the Afghan
Taliban than in the entire eight years of war. American officials have
complained bitterly since 2001 that the Pakistanis, while claiming to
be American allies and accepting American aid were simultaneously
providing sanctuary and assistance to Taliban fighters and leaders who
were battling the Americans across the border.

In conversations with American officials, Pakistani officials would
often claim not to know about the existence of the "Quetta Shura," the
name given to the council of senior Taliban leaders that used the
Pakistani city of Quetta as a sanctuary for years. It was the Quetta
Shura - also known as the Supreme Council - that Mr. Baradar presided
over.

It is still far from clear, but senior commanders in Afghanistan say
they believe that the Pakistani military and intelligence agencies,
led by Gens. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and Ahmed Shuja Pasha, may finally
be coming around to the belief that the Taliban - in Pakistan and
Afghanistan - constitute a threat to the existence of the Pakistani
state.

"I believe that General Kayani and his leaders have come to the
conclusion that they want us to succeed," a senior NATO officer in
Kabul said.

Word of the arrests of the shadow governors came as American, Afghan
and British forces continue to press ahead with their largest military
operation to date, in the Afghan agricultural town of Marja. Earlier
this month, on the eve of the Marja invasion, Afghan officials also
detained Marja's shadow governor as he tried to flee the country.

The Taliban figures are commonly referred to as "shadow governors"
because their identities are secret and because they mirror the
legitimate governors appointed by the Afghan government. The Taliban's
shadow governors oversee all military and political operations in a
given area.

Even before the arrests in Pakistan, the American and Afghan military
and intelligence services appeared to have been enjoying a run of
success against Taliban leaders inside Afghanistan.

The senior NATO officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said
American forces had detained or killed "three or four" Taliban
provincial governors in the past several weeks, including the
Taliban's shadow governor for Laghman Province.

Another NATO officer, also speaking on the condition of anonymity,
said that Mullah Zakhir, the Taliban's military commander for southern
Afghanistan, had been ordered back to Pakistan before the Marja
offensive.

Indeed, the capture of two Taliban governors inside Pakistan may
reflect the greater level of insecurity that all Taliban leaders are
feeling inside Afghanistan at the moment.

"The Taliban are feeling a new level of pain," the senior NATO officer
said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/wo...html?hp=&pagew....

The generals also wanted to wait until "all" the augmentation troops
got there. Say December. 2010. No, this is management telling labor to
get their ass out on the production line and stop taking those long
lunch hours.

On Feb 15, 8:12*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:



"Overwhelming to the point of saturation"

February 20, 2010
Military Analysis
Afghan Push Went Beyond Traditional Military Goals
By THOM SHANKER

WASHINGTON — Before 10,000 troops marched through central Helmand
Province to wrest control of a small Afghan town from a few hundred
entrenched Taliban fighters, American officials did something more
typical of political than military campaigns: they took some polls.

Perhaps no other feature of the offensive now under way in and around
the town, Marja, speaks so clearly to its central characteristic: it
is a campaign meant to shift perceptions as much as to alter the
military balance, crush an enemy army or seize some vital crossroads.

The polling was aimed at understanding what local residents wanted;
how they viewed local security; what they thought of the Americans,
the Taliban and the foreign jihadis fighting for local control; and
what might give them confidence in the central government in Kabul.

Whatever the limitations of this opinion sampling — what is the margin
of error when there are whole neighborhoods where it is deadly to
knock on doors? — what the commanders learned helped shape the entire
campaign. Among other things, those living in the area still harbor
some friendly feelings for the Americans, remembering how years ago
they built dams in the region, and strongly favor an effort to oust
the Taliban.

That gave the military extra confidence as they mounted a
counterinsurgency operation that stands out in many ways.

Notably, this was the first time that the Americans took pains to
involve the central government of President Hamid Karzai in such a
significant operation, let alone a multiphase campaign that included
the military, government and economic stability. Aside from
contributing thousands of troops, Mr. Karzai and his aides, with
significant help from the Americans, basically built a government in
waiting. The aim is for the Afghan government to carry out programs in
education, health and employment as soon as the area is secured,
according to a senior American officer.

The size of the onslaught was a departure from past practice, too. The
allied force is so large as to be described by one senior American
adviser as “overwhelming to the point of saturation.”

And the operation was advertised, almost in neon lights, so far in
advance and in such detail that there was none of the element of
surprise that combat commanders usually prize.

All of those characteristics are explained by the psychological goal
of this campaign, a shift of perceptions among the fence-sitters and
the fearful among the Afghan people.

Even domestically, the operation is supposed to show Americans that
the buildup ordered by President Obama can have swift and positive
results. The White House is not declaring victory, though; after Mr.
Obama was briefed by Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, his field commander,
on Tuesday, the White House press secretary, Robert Gibbs, said only
that the campaign was “highly planned and orchestrated.”

The project was set in motion six months ago, when General McChrystal
reported to President Obama that the Taliban, despite its relatively
light forces, had seized the initiative largely through adroit
exploitation of the tools of psychological warfare. Insurgent leaders
had become more nimble at exploiting even small victories — and
retelling even their battlefield defeats as successes through a
propaganda network of radio broadcasts, Web postings and threatening,
hand-delivered “night letters” to Afghan villages.

The problem was how a foreign army, no matter how much it built up,
could drown out the Taliban message and try to recast the Afghan
government and its coalition partners as winners. Combat operations
measured by industrial-age standards of captured terrain and enemy
dead had to be replaced by another standard adapted to the information
era: whether the operation can win the trust of the local people.

“The biggest thing is in convincing the Afghan people,” General
McChrystal said in Istanbul, where he joined Defense Secretary Robert
M. Gates to brief NATO allies just before the offensive began.

“This is all a war of perceptions,” General McChrystal said. “This is
not a physical war in terms of how many people you kill or how much
ground you capture, how many bridges you blow up. This is all in the
minds of the participants.”

Senior Pentagon and military officers also point out that the troop
ratio reverses several years in which planners sought to capitalize on
new technologies and new theories of military reform to fight in both
Iraq and Afghanistan with the smallest possible forces. “The number of
the enemy did not drive the equation,” said one senior American
officer involved in the Marja effort. “It was a calculation based on
how much ground we wanted to cover with a security blanket to reassure
the population.”

The senior officer and other military officials spoke on the condition
of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about the
operation.

Although it is a battle for public support, it is by no means a phony
war. The bullets, bombs and booby traps are real, putting everyone in
the area, including civilians, at real risk.

The leaflets scattered over the region persuaded some of the Taliban
to flee in the face of the onslaught, but others dug in and laid down
mines.

It was a risk that the commanders accepted, hoping that civilians, at
least, would be able to stay relatively safe. They knew that one of
the principal dangers to their psychological war would be the anger
stirred if civilian casualties were high.

They are hoping the campaign will be short. Officers say the major
combat portion of the offensive should be over within a month or so.

Then political and economic development advisers, now standing by,
will move in behind the combat force, along with two thousand Afghan
police officers.

On Thursday, the British commander of NATO forces in southern
Afghanistan, Maj. Gen. Nick Carter, told reporters at the Pentagon
that it would take months to judge whether the local residents were
satisfied.

“We probably won’t know for about 120 days whether or not the
population is entirely convinced by the degree of commitment that
their government is showing to them,” General Carter said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/20/wo...gewanted=print

Jack Linthicum wrote:

“This is all a war of perceptions,” General McChrystal said. “This is
not a physical war in terms of how many people you kill or how much
ground you capture, how many bridges you blow up. This is all in the
minds of the participants.”

Oh, dear God... the "hearts and minds" routine again.
We'll be seeing "the light at the end of the tunnel" shortly.

Pat

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...
Jack Linthicum wrote:

“This is all a war of perceptions,” General McChrystal said. “This is
not a physical war in terms of how many people you kill or how much
ground you capture, how many bridges you blow up. This is all in the
minds of the participants.”

Oh, dear God... the "hearts and minds" routine again.
We'll be seeing "the light at the end of the tunnel" shortly.

Pat

Who first said, "If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will
follow"?

On Feb 20, 2:50*pm, "Roger Conroy"
wrote:
"Pat Flannery" wrote in message

dakotatelephone...

Jack Linthicum wrote:

“This is all a war of perceptions,” General McChrystal said. “This is
not a physical war in terms of how many people you kill or how much
ground you capture, how many bridges you blow up. This is all in the
minds of the participants.”

Oh, dear God... the "hearts and minds" routine again.
We'll be seeing "the light at the end of the tunnel" shortly.

Pat

Who first said, "If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will
follow"?

In this case we may have them by their wallet, all those drying poppy
seeds aren't there for the dried flowers market.

Roger Conroy wrote:
"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...
Jack Linthicum wrote:

“This is all a war of perceptions,” General McChrystal said. “This is
not a physical war in terms of how many people you kill or how much
ground you capture, how many bridges you blow up. This is all in the
minds of the participants.”
Oh, dear God... the "hearts and minds" routine again.
We'll be seeing "the light at the end of the tunnel" shortly.

Pat

Who first said, "If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will
follow"?



Which of course only lasts until you let go.. then they come back with a
bit of added resentment..

The idea behind Hearts and Minds is to get them to support your side
because they want to.. that lasts a lot longer than force


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---