First Falcon 9 now getting assembled for launch

In message
Damon Hill wrote:

Pat Flannery wrote in
dakotatelephone:



Pat Flannery wrote:

That layout of the nine Merlins in a square looks really odd, doesn't
it?

As a follow-up to that, are they gimbaling all nine engines?
They'd only have to gimbal the four corner engines to control the
ascent trajectory.

What I've heard sounds pretty much like your idea; two engines will
be shut down late in the burn to limit acceleration, but I don't
know which ones.

As it's supposed to be able to lose any one engine, it's possible which
ones get shut down can be varied. If they've lost one part way up I
suspect they'd want to make the other one which ever best balanced the
thrust again?

I don't think the current rocket at the Cape is flight hardware,
more of a pathfinder to make sure everything fits. But maybe it
might do static firing tests?

This appears to be the first flight vehicle, though it will be put up
and taken down again. One of the update articles mentions that the
second stage engine won't be in place for the first stand up.

Anthony

"Anthony Frost" wrote in message
...
In message tatelephone
Pat Flannery wrote:

It's supposed to be fully stacked at KSC by New Year's Day:
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=27259

The same thing with it's predecessors direct from the Ox's mouth...

http://www.spacex.com/updates.php


I wonder how Boeing and LockMart are feeling about all this. If this thing
actually works than Atlas and Delta are cooked, Falcon 9 launches are
one-third their price.

My guess is that in the end, one or the other will simply try to buy SpaceX.
Will the authoritiet allow this, you guys reckon?

"Bob S." wrote in message
...

I wonder how Boeing and LockMart are feeling about all this. If this thing
actually works than Atlas and Delta are cooked, Falcon 9 launches are
one-third their price.

My guess is that in the end, one or the other will simply try to buy
SpaceX. Will the authoritiet allow this, you guys reckon?

Sure; there's still competition - just two launch providers instead of the
possible (probable) three if SpaceX make it happen.

I think both Boeing and Lockhead are shaking in their boots. Falcon 9 has a
major advantage over the Atlas - it's all-American (engine on the Atlas V
first stage is Russian); that makes the F9 more attractive to the U.S.
military for reconsat launches.

And the payload of the F9Heavy is more than sufficient for polar orbital
work. Once the F9 has flown a couple of times, the F9H will be able to
prove itself very easily. Then, either Boeing or Lockheed, and perhaps
both, will be out of the space business without a new launcher that can
compete with SpaceX.

I've been saying it for a while now - the next couple of years are going to
be very interesting!

"Alan Erskine" wrote in message
...
"Bob S." wrote in message
...

I wonder how Boeing and LockMart are feeling about all this. If this
thing actually works than Atlas and Delta are cooked, Falcon 9 launches
are one-third their price.

My guess is that in the end, one or the other will simply try to buy
SpaceX. Will the authoritiet allow this, you guys reckon?

Sure; there's still competition - just two launch providers instead of the
possible (probable) three if SpaceX make it happen.

I think both Boeing and Lockhead are shaking in their boots. Falcon 9 has
a major advantage over the Atlas - it's all-American (engine on the Atlas
V first stage is Russian); that makes the F9 more attractive to the U.S.
military for reconsat launches.

And the payload of the F9Heavy is more than sufficient for polar orbital
work. Once the F9 has flown a couple of times, the F9H will be able to
prove itself very easily. Then, either Boeing or Lockheed, and perhaps
both, will be out of the space business without a new launcher that can
compete with SpaceX.

I doubt that. The U.S. DoD doesn't want a monooply either, no matter how
good or cheap SpaceX is. The Delta is still the workhorse for most NASA
launches so I believe they won't be out of a job very soon.


I've been saying it for a while now - the next couple of years are going
to be very interesting!

The most interesting part will be when Dragon is launched. I'm very
interested if Bigelow and SpaceX are going to team up to make commercial
space (including tourism) a reality. I think Musk, Bigelow and Branson are
true visionaries since they decided that waiting for the government to open
up space for the ordinay Jole wasn't going to work, they decided to do it
themselves. I commend them for that.

"Bob S." wrote in message
...
The most interesting part will be when Dragon is launched. I'm very
interested if Bigelow and SpaceX are going to team up to make commercial
space (including tourism) a reality.

To me, that would mark the beginning of true commercial manned spaceflight.
Of course, it would also mark the beginning of the end of the governmental
monopoly on manned spaceflight.

Commercial Soyuz flights don't count since they're simply piggy-backing on a
government flight of a government developed space vehicle on a government
developed launch vehicle.

Jeff
--
"Many things that were acceptable in 1958 are no longer acceptable today.
My own standards have changed too." -- Freeman Dyson

"Bob S." wrote in message
...
I doubt that. The U.S. DoD doesn't want a monooply either, no matter how
good or cheap SpaceX is. The Delta is still the workhorse for most NASA
launches so I believe they won't be out of a job very soon.

There's less than a dozen Delta II's left; no more will be built. NASA has
been looking for alternatives for some time and one possibility is the Delta
IV Small (which has never flown, but is essentially a CBC from the Delta IV
and the upper stages of the Delta II). However, with the pricing of the F9,
I think NASA will go for it, rather than the Delta IV.

Also, SpaceX has just announced that they have won the NASA resupply
contract for the ISS using the F9 - that'll give NASA experience of dealing
with SpaceX as well as using a truly commercial concern.

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:07:18 GMT, in a place far, far away, "Alan
Erskine" made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

"Bob S." wrote in message
...

I wonder how Boeing and LockMart are feeling about all this. If this thing
actually works than Atlas and Delta are cooked, Falcon 9 launches are
one-third their price.

My guess is that in the end, one or the other will simply try to buy
SpaceX. Will the authoritiet allow this, you guys reckon?

Sure; there's still competition - just two launch providers instead of the
possible (probable) three if SpaceX make it happen.

I think both Boeing and Lockhead are shaking in their boots. Falcon 9 has a
major advantage over the Atlas - it's all-American (engine on the Atlas V
first stage is Russian); that makes the F9 more attractive to the U.S.
military for reconsat launches.

P&W can manufacture the engines in the US if need be, within a couple
years.

"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...
P&W can manufacture the engines in the US if need be, within a couple
years.

Within a couple of years....

It will still have the 'not-made-here' tag to deal with - at least it's
development.

Still, the F9 will be cheaper and 'all-American'; an advertising advantage
over the Atlas V. Nothing wrong with the Atlas V, but I wonder why the U.S.
went with the Delta IV instead of the Atlas V for reconsat launches when
they were the ones who paid for the development of _both_ launchers.

"Bob S." wrote:
:
:"Anthony Frost" wrote in message
...
: In message tatelephone
: Pat Flannery wrote:
:
: It's supposed to be fully stacked at KSC by New Year's Day:
: http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=27259
:
: The same thing with it's predecessors direct from the Ox's mouth...
:
: http://www.spacex.com/updates.php
:
:
:I wonder how Boeing and LockMart are feeling about all this. If this thing
:actually works than Atlas and Delta are cooked, Falcon 9 launches are
ne-third their price.
:
:My guess is that in the end, one or the other will simply try to buy SpaceX.
:Will the authoritiet allow this, you guys reckon?
:

I can't imagine why they wouldn't. It wouldn't decrease competition
below the level it was at before SpaceX, so such a prohibition would
be very hard to justify.

Presumably if someone else buys it they will also acquire all the
contractual obligations, so it would presumably still have to fly a
lot.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

In article , Bob S.
wrote:


I wonder how Boeing and LockMart are feeling about all this. If this thing
actually works than Atlas and Delta are cooked, Falcon 9 launches are
one-third their price.

My guess is that in the end, one or the other will simply try to buy SpaceX.
Will the authoritiet allow this, you guys reckon?

Why would Elon Musk sell it?

--
David M. Palmer (formerly @clark.net, @ematic.com)