Ares I - Launch Vehicles for Creationists

Michael Gallagher wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:24:13 -0600, kT wrote:

and global warming deniers.


Huh?

Please spare us.

If anyone else can come up with a better explanation for this thing,
feel free to fill us in on the details.

Um, using established technologies and manufacturing techniques that
will also be used on Ares V, ie five segment solids, J2-X engines, and
making the tanks in LA?

No, investing in a extraterrestrial space exploration program that sucks
most of the money away from rational Earth centric observation and
space transportation infrastructure. If you don't think that both VSE
and ESAS have been disastrous for America there is no use discussing it
with you.

I intend to make tanks in LA, that's the only thing I can salvage here.

If you need to get up to speed on the ramifications of the disaster :

http://rocketsandsuch.blogspot.com

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:26:20 -0600, kT wrote:

Michael Gallagher wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:24:13 -0600, kT wrote:

and global warming deniers.


Huh?

Please spare us.


I just don't see what Orion/Altair/Ares has to do with global warming,
creationism, and so forth.

No, investing in a extraterrestrial space exploration program that sucks
most of the money away from rational Earth centric observation and
space transportation infrastructure ....

First off, the Earth is hardly unobserved. There are tons of
satellites up there as we speak aiming their instruments back down --
have been for many years. That's where the weather channel gets their
satellite images and other data. You can do plenty of "rational"
Earht observation without nearly as much money as exploration.

And what's "irrational" about extraterrestrial exploration? We're
supposed to orbit the Earth and ignore everything BUT Earth? That's
ridiculous! That's like a SCUBA diver going a few inches below the
surface, rolling up on his back, and looking UP to see what's above
the waves. One would think one of the points of going into space is
to go to other places in that environment. In fact, Aurthur C. Clarke
wrote a book on it, "The Exploraiton of Space."

..... If you don't think that both VSE
and ESAS have been disastrous for America there is no use discussing it
with you.


Why should it be a "disaster"? America's history and tradition is one
of pushing back frontiers. No one every did that by walking a few
yards from home, stopping, and looking back at it.

I see Ares and Orion as building blocks that can be used for anything
we want down the road. What will their impact be? Neither has been
built yet, so how can anyone say?

You want to know what the rationale for Ares 1 is? As I see it,
there's a simple two-step:

1. Use your connection as an insider outsider to talk to the guys
actually doing it.

2. Believe what they tell you.

No conspiracy theory required.



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On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 12:49:20 -0500, in a place far, far away, Michael
Gallagher made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:26:20 -0600, kT wrote:

Michael Gallagher wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:24:13 -0600, kT wrote:

and global warming deniers.


Huh?

Please spare us.


I just don't see what Orion/Altair/Ares has to do with global warming,
creationism, and so forth.

This is "ElfNazi." Killfile him, or be killfiled.

Rand Simberg wrote:

This is "ElfNazi." Killfile him, or be killfiled.

And this is the fascist mantra. Fascists embrace violence just as
Christians embrace myth and fantasy.

Michael Gallagher wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:26:20 -0600, kT wrote:

Michael Gallagher wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:24:13 -0600, kT wrote:

and global warming deniers.

Huh?
Please spare us.


I just don't see what Orion/Altair/Ares has to do with global warming,
creationism, and so forth.

Think it through, when a nation both embraces creationism and denies
science simultaneously, what sort of launch vehicle will result?

No, investing in a extraterrestrial space exploration program that sucks
most of the money away from rational Earth centric observation and
space transportation infrastructure ....

First off, the Earth is hardly unobserved. There are tons of
satellites up there as we speak aiming their instruments back down --
have been for many years. That's where the weather channel gets their
satellite images and other data. You can do plenty of "rational"
Earht observation without nearly as much money as exploration.

And what's "irrational" about extraterrestrial exploration?

Not being able to afford it in the first place, not designing a
sustainable and affordable method of doing so in the second place, and
it not being relevant to the severe problems on Earth in the last place.

We're
supposed to orbit the Earth and ignore everything BUT Earth?

No, we are supposed to be able to *GET* into Earth orbit and stay there
in a rational, sustainable and affordable manner.

That's ridiculous!

If you say so buddy, you're the one with the problem :

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

..... If you don't think that both VSE
and ESAS have been disastrous for America there is no use discussing it
with you.


Why should it be a "disaster"?

It is demonstrably via empirical methods already a disaster, you appear
to be one of the 'faithful'.

America's history and tradition is one
of pushing back frontiers. No one every did that by walking a few
yards from home, stopping, and looking back at it.

snicker


I see Ares and Orion as building blocks that can be used for anything
we want down the road.

What you want does not correspond to reality.

What will their impact be? Neither has been
built yet, so how can anyone say?

We have these things, empirical models, theoretical methods,
computational techniques, and a budget, all have already spoken.

You want to know what the rationale for Ares 1 is?

I already know : failure.

As I see it,
there's a simple two-step:

1. Use your connection as an insider outsider to talk to the guys
actually doing it.

I've already told them to stop immediately, and I have offered a
rational alternative which may save some of the elements, in the form of
a COTS proposal. Not only will they be reading it, congress and the GAO
will be reading it too. Are you starting to get it yet?

kT wrote:

I just don't see what Orion/Altair/Ares has to do with global warming,
creationism, and so forth.

Think it through, when a nation both embraces creationism and denies
science simultaneously, what sort of launch vehicle will result?

The Chariot of Yahweh in the Book Of Ezekiel?
"Okay, last time around the room; Seraphim?"
"Seraphim go."
"Wheels?"
"Wheels go."
"Eyes?"
"Eyes go."
"Downrange?"
"This is Jerusalem, we are go."
"Abort landing site?"
"This is Boca Raton , we are go."
"Rabbi?"
"Rabbi is go, flight....wait...what's that in the food storage locker? A
ham sandwich! Hold!"
"This is CNN...flight control has called a hold on the launch, the
question now is if they can get this problem fixed before the launch
window closes at sunset. If not, we are taking about a minimum 24 hour
hold here, with the next launch opportunity being on Saturday night. The
question now becomes not only if the ham sandwich can be removed from
the vehicle, but if the whole vehicle needs to be re-certified for its
Kosherness. A option which could result in a delay of weeks, like
happened on the COY-24 mission aborted at the last moment last Passover
when it was discovered that one of the female astronauts had a yeast
infection only seconds before liftoff." ;-)

Pat