What was America's worst rocket related accident ?- was Ed Givens

(ed kyle) wrote:
Clearly, these people deserve some kind of memorial.

Why?

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:

Text-Only Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html

Enhanced HTML Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to , as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.

Clearly, these people deserve some kind of memorial.

Why?


They gave their life for the space program, and should be rembered.

Andrew Gray wrote:


(I interpreted "rocket related" as "in a rocket accident" - accidental
firing, pad explosion, that sort of thing, which is why the qualifier)

Has anyone mentioned the deaths of Sidney Dagle, Lott Gabel, and John
Fassett when the X-248 solid fuel motor for the OSO-B prematurely fired
due to static discharge while it was being mated to the spacecraft, in
April of 1964?

Pat

(Derek Lyons) wrote in message ...
(ed kyle) wrote:
Clearly, these people deserve some kind of memorial.

Why?


Grissom, White, and Chaffee died in a horrible fire during a
ground test. They are memorialized, in more than one location.
The three men who died in the Delta Spin Test Facility also
died in a horrible fire during a ground test. In both
instances, the deaths taught critical lessons that improved
safety - and helped advance the progress of space exploration.

I've heard stories about how terrible the Delta solid motor
accident was, especially for the survivors. I'm not saying
there should be a fancy monument, but there should be something
to help the next generation remember those lessons.

- Ed Kyle

(ed kyle) wrote:

(Derek Lyons) wrote in message ...
(ed kyle) wrote:
Clearly, these people deserve some kind of memorial.

Why?


Grissom, White, and Chaffee died in a horrible fire during a
ground test. They are memorialized, in more than one location.
The three men who died in the Delta Spin Test Facility also
died in a horrible fire during a ground test. In both
instances, the deaths taught critical lessons that improved
safety - and helped advance the progress of space exploration.

So we should memorialize their parents for raising such children?
Their children for the accident of having chosen the right parents?
Where does it end?

I've heard stories about how terrible the Delta solid motor
accident was, especially for the survivors. I'm not saying
there should be a fancy monument, but there should be something
to help the next generation remember those lessons.

A far better memorial is to be found in engineering literature, not in
a plaque that will be forgotten in a year or two.

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:

Text-Only Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html

Enhanced HTML Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to , as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.

Derek Lyons ) writes:
(ed kyle) wrote:

(Derek Lyons) wrote in message ...
(ed kyle) wrote:
Clearly, these people deserve some kind of memorial.

Why?

Grissom, White, and Chaffee died in a horrible fire during a
ground test. They are memorialized, in more than one location.
The three men who died in the Delta Spin Test Facility also
died in a horrible fire during a ground test. In both
instances, the deaths taught critical lessons that improved
safety - and helped advance the progress of space exploration.

So we should memorialize their parents for raising such children?
Their children for the accident of having chosen the right parents?
Where does it end?

Indeed. Its simply not possible to " A List " memorialise everyone.

For one thing, we don't have enough storage space inside of our
skulls to hold such huge stores of essentially useless and
unconnected to our lives data. Thats what things like books are
for, so that we can find in them, what we don't recall at the time
that we think of wanting to know.

So, books about the history of human endeavours are the best
memorial for such people that we can usefully offer. Along with
an understanding that putting up major memorials is to be
reserved for the truely special, on whatever basis we judge
events to be such.

And, to don a bit of asbestos for a sec, this is one thing that
rather annoys me about things like the WTC memorial plans. Turning
that place into wholly dedicated memorial for the events/people
there, seems to be to be a bit overdoing it.

A better memorial for them, IMHO, would be to build some kind
of functional building/sets of buildings there, along with a
tasteful memorial that would not scream into all who pass by
faces, that " this is what this place is all about ! ".

After all, doesn't the history of that place *before* 9/11/01
mean anything ?

I've heard stories about how terrible the Delta solid motor
accident was, especially for the survivors. I'm not saying
there should be a fancy monument, but there should be something
to help the next generation remember those lessons.

A far better memorial is to be found in engineering literature,
not in a plaque that will be forgotten in a year or two.

Indeed. These kinds of calls for mass memorials tend to be
meant to be *substitutes* for what was being reached for...

Andre

--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
The Man Prayer, Red Green.

In article ,
(Andre Lieven) wrote:

Derek Lyons ) writes:
(ed kyle) wrote:

(Derek Lyons) wrote in message
...
(ed kyle) wrote:
Clearly, these people deserve some kind of memorial.

Why?

Grissom, White, and Chaffee died in a horrible fire during a
ground test. They are memorialized, in more than one location.
The three men who died in the Delta Spin Test Facility also
died in a horrible fire during a ground test. In both
instances, the deaths taught critical lessons that improved
safety - and helped advance the progress of space exploration.

So we should memorialize their parents for raising such children?
Their children for the accident of having chosen the right parents?
Where does it end?

Indeed. Its simply not possible to " A List " memorialise everyone.

For one thing, we don't have enough storage space inside of our
skulls to hold such huge stores of essentially useless and
unconnected to our lives data. Thats what things like books are
for, so that we can find in them, what we don't recall at the time
that we think of wanting to know.

So, books about the history of human endeavours are the best
memorial for such people that we can usefully offer. Along with
an understanding that putting up major memorials is to be
reserved for the truely special, on whatever basis we judge
events to be such.

And, to don a bit of asbestos for a sec, this is one thing that
rather annoys me about things like the WTC memorial plans. Turning
that place into wholly dedicated memorial for the events/people
there, seems to be to be a bit overdoing it.

A better memorial for them, IMHO, would be to build some kind
of functional building/sets of buildings there, along with a
tasteful memorial that would not scream into all who pass by
faces, that " this is what this place is all about ! ".

Oh, but that's just the _deal_ with Nine-Eleventm memorials; they just
aren't doing their duty for State propaganda if they _don't_ shout "this
is what it's all about". How can Dubya get his propaganda message out if
it's not totally obvious he's wielding his bullhorn at Ground Zerotm?
You get a look at what they want to build on Ground Zerotm? If there's
any message at all in that horrid, angular, inorganic, ponderous pile,
it's that our society is even more arrogant than before and has learned
absolutely zippo from Nine-Eleventm, except perhaps how to turn
tragedies like these into one's own personal Reichstag Fire.


After all, doesn't the history of that place *before* 9/11/01
mean anything?

Iirc, the WTC towers were fairly reviled among many NYCers for being
sterile and ugly, the builders' monuments to themselves, an example of
something that you shouldn't do just because you can -- in this case,
absurdly, freakishly tall buildings.


I've heard stories about how terrible the Delta solid motor
accident was, especially for the survivors. I'm not saying
there should be a fancy monument, but there should be something
to help the next generation remember those lessons...

One of the most moving memorials to anything or anybody, imho, is the
remnants of the base of the service structure at Pad 34, where the
paint-stenciled instruction "ABANDON IN PLACE" has been spotted and eroded
until it now appears to read "ABANDON IN PEACE".

I also liked the infamous East German TV Network tower with a spherical
observation deck enclosure near the top whose faceted surfaces continually
refracted sunlight in the shape of a cross, no matter what the East German
construction engineers tried to do to prevent it.

--
"All over, people changing their roles,
along with their overcoats;
if Adolf Hitler flew in today,
they'd send a limousine anyway!" --the clash.
__________________________________________________ _________________
Mike Flugennock, flugennock at sinkers dot org
Mike Flugennock's Mikey'zine, dubya dubya dubya dot sinkers dot org

Indeed. Its simply not possible to " A List " memorialise everyone.

Hey! A memorial at KSC for everyone who died while futhering the space program
would be a nice thing.

As far as WTC, face facts thats what that place will always be, the opening
attack in a never ending war. Justr for that reason it should be memoralized.

Mike Flugennock ) writes:
In article ,
(Andre Lieven) wrote:

Derek Lyons ) writes:
(ed kyle) wrote:

(Derek Lyons) wrote in message
...
(ed kyle) wrote:
Clearly, these people deserve some kind of memorial.

Why?

Grissom, White, and Chaffee died in a horrible fire during a
ground test. They are memorialized, in more than one location.
The three men who died in the Delta Spin Test Facility also
died in a horrible fire during a ground test. In both
instances, the deaths taught critical lessons that improved
safety - and helped advance the progress of space exploration.

So we should memorialize their parents for raising such children?
Their children for the accident of having chosen the right parents?
Where does it end?

Indeed. Its simply not possible to " A List " memorialise everyone.

For one thing, we don't have enough storage space inside of our
skulls to hold such huge stores of essentially useless and
unconnected to our lives data. Thats what things like books are
for, so that we can find in them, what we don't recall at the time
that we think of wanting to know.

So, books about the history of human endeavours are the best
memorial for such people that we can usefully offer. Along with
an understanding that putting up major memorials is to be
reserved for the truely special, on whatever basis we judge
events to be such.

And, to don a bit of asbestos for a sec, this is one thing that
rather annoys me about things like the WTC memorial plans. Turning
that place into wholly dedicated memorial for the events/people
there, seems to be to be a bit overdoing it.

A better memorial for them, IMHO, would be to build some kind
of functional building/sets of buildings there, along with a
tasteful memorial that would not scream into all who pass by
faces, that " this is what this place is all about ! ".

Oh, but that's just the _deal_ with Nine-Eleventm memorials; they just
aren't doing their duty for State propaganda if they _don't_ shout "this
is what it's all about". How can Dubya get his propaganda message out if
it's not totally obvious he's wielding his bullhorn at Ground Zerotm?

Well, it might not be finished even in time for him having a second
term...

Vis Apollo, to come back to an ssh topic... g

You get a look at what they want to build on Ground Zerotm? If there's
any message at all in that horrid, angular, inorganic, ponderous pile,
it's that our society is even more arrogant than before and has learned
absolutely zippo from Nine-Eleventm, except perhaps how to turn
tragedies like these into one's own personal Reichstag Fire.

Yeah, I've seen some of the current crop of designs, in media
reports on them, and I can't say that I'm positively impressed
by any of them.

A simple Vietnam Memorial wall like thing, off to one side, or along
the footptints of the towers, while new buildings, towars, some,
perhaps, would be the way to go, IMHO. A sign that we remember,
without saying that we do nothing *but* " remember " ( Read:
" wallow in it, ad nauseum " ).

Plus, a pair of new towers, say, 111 stories tall, would stand
like a pair of upturned fingers to the Bad Guys...

After all, doesn't the history of that place *before* 9/11/01
mean anything?

Iirc, the WTC towers were fairly reviled among many NYCers for being
sterile and ugly, the builders' monuments to themselves, an example of
something that you shouldn't do just because you can -- in this case,
absurdly, freakishly tall buildings.

Well, a couple of the histories that I've read of them suggest that
they became comfortably accpeted by the city, and by folks from
far away, too. Heck, Channel 11 in NYC used them as a station logo.

And, I rather liked what I saw of them, when I was there in March of
2000. Even had dinner in Windows On The World. That was... tres kewl.

I've heard stories about how terrible the Delta solid motor
accident was, especially for the survivors. I'm not saying
there should be a fancy monument, but there should be something
to help the next generation remember those lessons...

One of the most moving memorials to anything or anybody, imho, is the
remnants of the base of the service structure at Pad 34, where the
paint-stenciled instruction "ABANDON IN PLACE" has been spotted and
eroded until it now appears to read "ABANDON IN PEACE".

Ah. I would have liked to have seen that. My one time at Canaveral,
was short enough that only going on one tour was possible, and we
chose the shuttle/Saturn V one, in Sept 1992.

Have you read Jerry Oltion's ( sp ? ) novella of the same name ?
Nicely done.

I also liked the infamous East German TV Network tower with a spherical
observation deck enclosure near the top whose faceted surfaces continually
refracted sunlight in the shape of a cross, no matter what the East German
construction engineers tried to do to prevent it.

g Some statements... get made, no matter what.

Andre

--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
The Man Prayer, Red Green.

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:13:59 -0600, Brian Thorn wrote (in
part):

On 4 Dec 2003 18:04:18 GMT, Andrew Gray
wrote:


Okay. What was America's worst rocket related accident with the
greatest loss of life?

As part of the US space program?

Two technicians were killed in Columbia in March '81, although this
isn't really "rocket related".

Yes, it is. John Bjornstad and Forest Cole died either in Columbia's
Aft Compartment or in one of the Tail Service Masts at the launch pad,
depending on the source.


Was that the nitrogen asphyxiation case?

Chris W