India & China to build Asian Space Station

On Sep 30, 3:05 pm, Einar wrote:
On Sep 25, 8:22 am, "Jim Relsh" wrote:





"Sunny Beasty" schreef in oglegroups.com...

On Sep 24, 1:00 pm, "Jim Relsh" wrote:

How about both of them first making sure the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of
beggars
and homeless hobbits in their country have food, a roof over their heads
and
a job before them embarking on these megalomanic projects.

By that logic, the US should never have undertaken it's Space Program
given the problems of both the huge black underclass and the
increasing numbers of poor (and often illegal) Latino immigrants. As
for Russia it's a basketcase with an economy worse than Mexico or
Brazil (in both gross and per capita terms) so it should completely
junk its space program.....do I have you right?

No you don't. 95% of all Indians lives in abject poverty and as a nation
India is very poorly developed, primitive even. Even in the 1950s the U.S.
was by far the richest nation in the world.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

Your knowledge about India appears to be out of date by the order of
few decates.
Today India is a rapidly industrializing economy.

Year Round Poverty Rate (%) Poverty Reduction per year(%)
1977-78 32 51.3
1983 38 44.5 1.3
1987-88 43 38.9 1.2
1993-94 50 36.0 0.5
1999-2000 55 (26.09) not comparable
2004-2005 61 27.5 0.8

Einar

If those numbers came from India, go figure. Much of India is
unaccounted for, just like the millions of Americans that fell off the
unemployment list because they ran through all available benefits and
essentially do not exist anymore, at least not to our government
infowar accounting system. Whatever good paying jobs were most often
replaced by part-time and relatively ****-poor paying jobs, or those
of DHS or FEMA that are make-work jobs that most of us could do
without their make-do or whatever pretend services. Allowing
California to burn for days prior to taking any serious FEMA action
via air tankers that exist, is pretty much typical of how our crack
federal government that running itself out of our hard earned loot
can't even take care of our own kind.
- Brad Guth -

There is no evidence that junking a nation's space programme will do
anything beyond lowering the educational and employment prospects of its
more restless and enterprising citizens ( without whom there is,
effectively, no nation at all worthy of the name). Would you rather they
took up arms instead?
The only hope for India and China, and most other nations, is in furthering
the peaceful and constructive ambitions and aspirations of its more
enterprising people- the standard bearers of Humankind. Space development,
it is widely acknowledged , assists greatly in this respect, as the debates
in India's Parliament have recognised in recent years.
As for the millions of poor and hungry, Rome and Babylon had them , too-
without the aid of space programmes.
As Christ said, "The poor shall be with you always"- with or without space
programmes.


Before junking space programmes which add to our scientific,evolutionary and
cultural potential , let us junk war, gambling, child pornography and
exploitation, illicit drugs, and cigarettes- none of which do anything for
human advancement at all, and which cost a good deal more than the next few
decades' explorations of the Moon and Mars could hope to do.
When all the foregoing have been finally abolished - if we still have
problems of hunger and poverty, we could consider scrapping our space
programmes- but ,thanks to our then proven incompetence at solving the
problems of hunger and poverty even after abolishing the vices above, I
doubt merely junking space programmes would do any good anyhow....
Poverty and hunger are not caused by space programmes but by incompetent
Governments and societies driven by clapped out creeds or sheer avarice
which conspire to assist the culling labours of an impersonal "Mother"
Nature.

Exploration of our world and , in our times, Space beyond , like Science in
general ,Philosophy, and Art are among the few positive achievements of
human civilization- ones which, moreover, are beyond the scope of any of the
rest of the Animal Kingdom. These are to humans what spinning webs is to
spiders,- defining characteristics which give us our raison d'etre in the
Universal scheme,and without which we are merely a waste of space awaiting
extinction. Without them, the hundreds of millions of poor and hungry will
merely grow into billions, and the Human Enterprise would lose meaning
altogether

Michael Martin-Smith
"Sunny Beasty" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 24, 1:00 pm, "Jim Relsh" wrote:

How about both of them first making sure the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of
beggars
and homeless hobbits in their country have food, a roof over their heads
and
a job before them embarking on these megalomanic projects.

By that logic, the US should never have undertaken it's Space Program
given the problems of both the huge black underclass and the
increasing numbers of poor (and often illegal) Latino immigrants. As
for Russia it's a basketcase with an economy worse than Mexico or
Brazil (in both gross and per capita terms) so it should completely
junk its space program.....do I have you right?

On Sep 25, 6:04 pm, "Michael Martin-Smith"
wrote:
There is no evidence that junking a nation's space programme will do
anything beyond lowering the educational and employment prospects of its
more restless and enterprising citizens ( without whom there is,
effectively, no nation at all worthy of the name). Would you rather they
took up arms instead?
The only hope for India and China, and most other nations, is in furthering
the peaceful and constructive ambitions and aspirations of its more
enterprising people- the standard bearers of Humankind. Space development,
it is widely acknowledged , assists greatly in this respect, as the debates
in India's Parliament have recognised in recent years.
As for the millions of poor and hungry, Rome and Babylon had them , too-
without the aid of space programmes.
As Christ said, "The poor shall be with you always"- with or without space
programmes.

Before junking space programmes which add to our scientific,evolutionary and
cultural potential , let us junk war, gambling, child pornography and
exploitation, illicit drugs, and cigarettes- none of which do anything for
human advancement at all, and which cost a good deal more than the next few
decades' explorations of the Moon and Mars could hope to do.
When all the foregoing have been finally abolished - if we still have
problems of hunger and poverty, we could consider scrapping our space
programmes- but ,thanks to our then proven incompetence at solving the
problems of hunger and poverty even after abolishing the vices above, I
doubt merely junking space programmes would do any good anyhow....
Poverty and hunger are not caused by space programmes but by incompetent
Governments and societies driven by clapped out creeds or sheer avarice
which conspire to assist the culling labours of an impersonal "Mother"
Nature.

Exploration of our world and , in our times, Space beyond , like Science in
general ,Philosophy, and Art are among the few positive achievements of
human civilization- ones which, moreover, are beyond the scope of any of the
rest of the Animal Kingdom. These are to humans what spinning webs is to
spiders,- defining characteristics which give us our raison d'etre in the
Universal scheme,and without which we are merely a waste of space awaiting
extinction. Without them, the hundreds of millions of poor and hungry will
merely grow into billions, and the Human Enterprise would lose meaning
altogether

Michael Martin-Smith

Excellent post, I'll second that! :-)

On Sep 26, 6:04 am, "Michael Martin-Smith"
wrote:
There is no evidence that junking a nation's space programme will do
anything beyond lowering the educational and employment prospects of its
more restless and enterprising citizens ( without whom there is,
effectively, no nation at all worthy of the name). Would you rather they
took up arms instead?
The only hope for India and China, and most other nations, is in furthering
the peaceful and constructive ambitions and aspirations of its more
enterprising people- the standard bearers of Humankind. Space development,
it is widely acknowledged , assists greatly in this respect, as the debates
in India's Parliament have recognised in recent years.
As for the millions of poor and hungry, Rome and Babylon had them , too-
without the aid of space programmes.
As Christ said, "The poor shall be with you always"- with or without space
programmes.

Before junking space programmes which add to our scientific,evolutionary and
cultural potential , let us junk war, gambling, child pornography and
exploitation, illicit drugs, and cigarettes- none of which do anything for
human advancement at all, and which cost a good deal more than the next few
decades' explorations of the Moon and Mars could hope to do.
When all the foregoing have been finally abolished - if we still have
problems of hunger and poverty, we could consider scrapping our space
programmes- but ,thanks to our then proven incompetence at solving the
problems of hunger and poverty even after abolishing the vices above, I
doubt merely junking space programmes would do any good anyhow....
Poverty and hunger are not caused by space programmes but by incompetent
Governments and societies driven by clapped out creeds or sheer avarice
which conspire to assist the culling labours of an impersonal "Mother"
Nature.

Exploration of our world and , in our times, Space beyond , like Science in
general ,Philosophy, and Art are among the few positive achievements of
human civilization- ones which, moreover, are beyond the scope of any of the
rest of the Animal Kingdom. These are to humans what spinning webs is to
spiders,- defining characteristics which give us our raison d'etre in the
Universal scheme,and without which we are merely a waste of space awaiting
extinction. Without them, the hundreds of millions of poor and hungry will
merely grow into billions, and the Human Enterprise would lose meaning
altogether

Michael Martin-Smith
(snip)
------------

Agree. Had Christopher Columbus waited for poverty to be eradicated
before setting out on his voyage, he would never have "discovered"
America. The same for all voyages of discovery.

Wakalukong

Wakalukong wrote:
On Sep 26, 6:04 am, "Michael Martin-Smith"
wrote:
There is no evidence that junking a nation's space programme will do
anything beyond lowering the educational and employment prospects of its
more restless and enterprising citizens ( without whom there is,
effectively, no nation at all worthy of the name). Would you rather they
took up arms instead?
The only hope for India and China, and most other nations, is in furthering
the peaceful and constructive ambitions and aspirations of its more
enterprising people- the standard bearers of Humankind. Space development,
it is widely acknowledged , assists greatly in this respect, as the debates
in India's Parliament have recognised in recent years.
As for the millions of poor and hungry, Rome and Babylon had them , too-
without the aid of space programmes.
As Christ said, "The poor shall be with you always"- with or without space
programmes.

Before junking space programmes which add to our scientific,evolutionary and
cultural potential , let us junk war, gambling, child pornography and
exploitation, illicit drugs, and cigarettes- none of which do anything for
human advancement at all, and which cost a good deal more than the next few
decades' explorations of the Moon and Mars could hope to do.
When all the foregoing have been finally abolished - if we still have
problems of hunger and poverty, we could consider scrapping our space
programmes- but ,thanks to our then proven incompetence at solving the
problems of hunger and poverty even after abolishing the vices above, I
doubt merely junking space programmes would do any good anyhow....
Poverty and hunger are not caused by space programmes but by incompetent
Governments and societies driven by clapped out creeds or sheer avarice
which conspire to assist the culling labours of an impersonal "Mother"
Nature.

Exploration of our world and , in our times, Space beyond , like Science in
general ,Philosophy, and Art are among the few positive achievements of
human civilization- ones which, moreover, are beyond the scope of any of the
rest of the Animal Kingdom. These are to humans what spinning webs is to
spiders,- defining characteristics which give us our raison d'etre in the
Universal scheme,and without which we are merely a waste of space awaiting
extinction. Without them, the hundreds of millions of poor and hungry will
merely grow into billions, and the Human Enterprise would lose meaning
altogether

Michael Martin-Smith
(snip)
------------

Agree. Had Christopher Columbus waited for poverty to be eradicated
before setting out on his voyage, he would never have "discovered"
America. The same for all voyages of discovery.

So when was the moon discovered, actually.

On Sep 25, 11:41 pm, Wakalukong wrote:
Agree. Had Christopher Columbus waited for poverty to be eradicated
before setting out on his voyage, he would never have "discovered"
America. The same for all voyages of discovery.


Great point. Jim Relsh is obviously an ignoramus talking bullocks.
If nobody had purchased a computer in India 2+ decades ago, there
would be no IT industry. There are hoards of educated but unemployed/
underemployed persons in both countries.

Getting back to the subject, India and China currently do not
collaborate on anything. This is due to suspicion following the 1962
border war. There should be a proposal that the two countries should
begin some form of collaboration in space - even if it is small scale.

The perfect step would be a robotic mission to mars or a hubble type
telescope. Aside from creating high tech jobs and sparking global
interest in the red planet, it would be of significant political value.

On Sep 25, 2:04 pm, "Michael Martin-Smith"
wrote:
There is no evidence that junking a nation's space programme will do
anything beyond lowering the educational and employment prospects of its
more restless and enterprising citizens ( without whom there is,
effectively, no nation at all worthy of the name). Would you rather they
took up arms instead?
The only hope for India and China, and most other nations, is in furthering
the peaceful and constructive ambitions and aspirations of its more
enterprising people- the standard bearers of Humankind. Space development,
it is widely acknowledged , assists greatly in this respect, as the debates
in India's Parliament have recognised in recent years.
As for the millions of poor and hungry, Rome and Babylon had them , too-
without the aid of space programmes.
As Christ said, "The poor shall be with you always"- with or without space
programmes.

Before junking space programmes which add to our scientific, evolutionary
and cultural potential, let us junk war, gambling, child pornography and
exploitation, illicit drugs, and cigarettes- none of which do anything for
human advancement at all, and which cost a good deal more than the next few
decades' explorations of the Moon and Mars could hope to do.
When all the foregoing have been finally abolished - if we still have
problems of hunger and poverty, we could consider scrapping our space
programmes- but ,thanks to our then proven incompetence at solving the
problems of hunger and poverty even after abolishing the vices above, I
doubt merely junking space programmes would do any good anyhow....
Poverty and hunger are not caused by space programmes but by incompetent
Governments and societies driven by clapped out creeds or sheer avarice
which conspire to assist the culling labours of an impersonal "Mother"
Nature.

Exploration of our world and, in our times, Space beyond, like Science in
general, Philosophy, and Art are among the few positive achievements of
human civilization- ones which, moreover, are beyond the scope of any of the
rest of the Animal Kingdom. These are to humans what spinning webs is to
spiders,- defining characteristics which give us our raison d'etre in the
Universal scheme,and without which we are merely a waste of space awaiting
extinction. Without them, the hundreds of millions of poor and hungry will
merely grow into billions, and the Human Enterprise would lose meaning
altogether

You are more right about the future of China, India and perhaps even
Japan than we've been allowed to think or much less express. Humanity
needs access to and the rights as to explore and benefit from the
future of possibilities.

China's (CNSA) moon mission: Chang'e-1 should become downright
interesting, that is if they can manage to keep their stuff from
running into JAXA's KAGUYA/(SELENE) mission of three orbiting items.
As reported, China's lunar probe will supposedly remain at roughly 200
km, thus keeping a safe 100 km distance away from the KAGUYA/(SELENE)
mission, at least that's plan-A.

(From The Yomiuri Shimbun, Oct. 29, 2007)
"China's space technology was already at a high level. China has
launched more than 100 Long March rockets since 1970, while Japan's H2-
A rocket has been launched only 13 times."

KAGUYA/(SELENE) HDTV/CCD imaging getting its first full solar dosage
or skewed saturation of those pesky raw secondary photons.
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/20071021_kaguya_e.pdf
http://www.selene.jaxa.jp/index_e.htm
http://www.kaguya.jaxa.jp/en/
Notice as to all of those unavoidable UV secondary/recoil worth of
bluish and/or extra violet saturation that KAGUYA/(SELENE) HDTV is
having to deal with, even though their having incorproated a
sufficient UV spectrum cut-off filter and currently using not more
than 1% worth of their HDTV dynamic range(DR), even so having no
problems with recording the physically dark moon along with Earth
that's not even half the albedo worth of Vemus which also has greater
than 2.6 kw/m2 to work with. Far better images are soon enough going
to be accomplished, especially with those other onboard CCD
instruments that'll far exceed what most previous science about our
extremely unusual moon.

Once their version of PhotoShop image colour adjustments are made, the
true depth of that physically dark contrast and spectrum of those
natural mineral rich moon colors will emerge (with far more extensive
scope than the naked human eye can detect).

Once again, it's really too bad that we still don't have anything
established within the moon's L1, much less accomplishing those 1
meter/pixel images that eventually KAGUYA/(SELENE) will likely manage
to accomplish towards the end of its one year mission, as the KAGUYA/
(SELENE) orbit becomes less than 10 km.
- Brad Guth -

Space programmes are not a very bad idea if the
technology developed could also be commercialised
for civilian purposes. In that way money is made
and technology improvements could be used to
improve civilian lives. Many space program techniques
and technology are now being used to improve civilian
lives.



"BradGuth" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 25, 2:04 pm, "Michael Martin-Smith"
wrote:
There is no evidence that junking a nation's space programme will do
anything beyond lowering the educational and employment prospects of its
more restless and enterprising citizens ( without whom there is,
effectively, no nation at all worthy of the name). Would you rather they
took up arms instead?
The only hope for India and China, and most other nations, is in furthering
the peaceful and constructive ambitions and aspirations of its more
enterprising people- the standard bearers of Humankind. Space development,
it is widely acknowledged , assists greatly in this respect, as the debates
in India's Parliament have recognised in recent years.
As for the millions of poor and hungry, Rome and Babylon had them , too-
without the aid of space programmes.
As Christ said, "The poor shall be with you always"- with or without space
programmes.

Before junking space programmes which add to our scientific, evolutionary
and cultural potential, let us junk war, gambling, child pornography and
exploitation, illicit drugs, and cigarettes- none of which do anything for
human advancement at all, and which cost a good deal more than the next few
decades' explorations of the Moon and Mars could hope to do.
When all the foregoing have been finally abolished - if we still have
problems of hunger and poverty, we could consider scrapping our space
programmes- but ,thanks to our then proven incompetence at solving the
problems of hunger and poverty even after abolishing the vices above, I
doubt merely junking space programmes would do any good anyhow....
Poverty and hunger are not caused by space programmes but by incompetent
Governments and societies driven by clapped out creeds or sheer avarice
which conspire to assist the culling labours of an impersonal "Mother"
Nature.

Exploration of our world and, in our times, Space beyond, like Science in
general, Philosophy, and Art are among the few positive achievements of
human civilization- ones which, moreover, are beyond the scope of any of the
rest of the Animal Kingdom. These are to humans what spinning webs is to
spiders,- defining characteristics which give us our raison d'etre in the
Universal scheme,and without which we are merely a waste of space awaiting
extinction. Without them, the hundreds of millions of poor and hungry will
merely grow into billions, and the Human Enterprise would lose meaning
altogether

You are more right about the future of China, India and perhaps even
Japan than we've been allowed to think or much less express. Humanity
needs access to and the rights as to explore and benefit from the
future of possibilities.

China's (CNSA) moon mission: Chang'e-1 should become downright
interesting, that is if they can manage to keep their stuff from
running into JAXA's KAGUYA/(SELENE) mission of three orbiting items.
As reported, China's lunar probe will supposedly remain at roughly 200
km, thus keeping a safe 100 km distance away from the KAGUYA/(SELENE)
mission, at least that's plan-A.

(From The Yomiuri Shimbun, Oct. 29, 2007)
"China's space technology was already at a high level. China has
launched more than 100 Long March rockets since 1970, while Japan's H2-
A rocket has been launched only 13 times."

KAGUYA/(SELENE) HDTV/CCD imaging getting its first full solar dosage
or skewed saturation of those pesky raw secondary photons.
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/20071021_kaguya_e.pdf
http://www.selene.jaxa.jp/index_e.htm
http://www.kaguya.jaxa.jp/en/
Notice as to all of those unavoidable UV secondary/recoil worth of
bluish and/or extra violet saturation that KAGUYA/(SELENE) HDTV is
having to deal with, even though their having incorproated a
sufficient UV spectrum cut-off filter and currently using not more
than 1% worth of their HDTV dynamic range(DR), even so having no
problems with recording the physically dark moon along with Earth
that's not even half the albedo worth of Vemus which also has greater
than 2.6 kw/m2 to work with. Far better images are soon enough going
to be accomplished, especially with those other onboard CCD
instruments that'll far exceed what most previous science about our
extremely unusual moon.

Once their version of PhotoShop image colour adjustments are made, the
true depth of that physically dark contrast and spectrum of those
natural mineral rich moon colors will emerge (with far more extensive
scope than the naked human eye can detect).

Once again, it's really too bad that we still don't have anything
established within the moon's L1, much less accomplishing those 1
meter/pixel images that eventually KAGUYA/(SELENE) will likely manage
to accomplish towards the end of its one year mission, as the KAGUYA/
(SELENE) orbit becomes less than 10 km.
- Brad Guth -

"Jim Relsh" wrote in message
.. .

"fruitella" schreef in bericht
ps.com...
Its only a dream so don't get too excited yet. India is being blocked
entry into the international space station project. China has an even
lesser chance of gaining entry. So why not India & China collaborate
on :

a) an unmanned robotic mission to mars followed by
b) an Asian space station


How about both of them first making sure the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of
beggars and homeless hobbits in their country have food, a roof over their
heads and a job before them embarking on these megalomanic projects.

The same arguments have been made about the US space program, so why do we
have one?

The fact is that each government program has to stand on its own merits.
That and the size of NASA's budget is miniscule compared to the social
programs, so ending NASA wouldn't amount to much.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)

On Sep 24, 10:00 am, "Jim Relsh" wrote:
"fruitella" schreef in glegroups.com...

Its only a dream so don't get too excited yet. India is being blocked
entry into the international space station project. China has an even
lesser chance of gaining entry. So why not India & China collaborate
on :

a) an unmanned robotic mission to mars followed by
b) an Asian space station

How about both of them first making sure the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of beggars
and homeless hobbits in their country have food, a roof over their heads and
a job before them embarking on these megalomanic projects.


They could call the project, "The Great Leap Forward." ;-)