Google/X-Prize Moon Contest

"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:

Develop 1-3 physical methods for encoding data that can be decoded at a
later date that make no cultural assumptions.

Take a look at the book 'Deep Time' - they've looked at doing this for
nuclear waste respositories, which means conveying a much simple
message, and haven't had (IMO) a great deal of sucess.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
Joe Strout wrote:

So this really amounts to nothing more than a lander, a robot, and $7M
or so for the launch. I'm starting to think my 2010 estimate was too
conservative!

My bet is that in 2012, you'll be here explaining how the prize
_could_ have been won in time - if only eeeeevil NASA had coughed up a
subsidized launcher, or paid more attention to unobtanium purification
tech back in the 60's, or some other handwaving.

I'll lay odds this prize won't be claimed by the current expiry date
of the prize.

I'll also lay odds that if it is claimed prior to the expiry date, the
launch will occur on a recycled Russian ICBM.


Care to lay a bet on that Derek?

http://www.longbet.com/ we can develop some language and see what happens.


(Honestly I'm not sure one way or the other, but think it could be a fun
bet.)



D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:

Develop 1-3 physical methods for encoding data that can be decoded at a
later date that make no cultural assumptions.

Take a look at the book 'Deep Time' - they've looked at doing this for
nuclear waste respositories, which means conveying a much simple
message, and haven't had (IMO) a great deal of sucess.

Thanks for the suggestion.

What little I've seen on the nwr issue has been more focused on messages
that can be interpreted by possibly semi-literate or even pre-literate
civilizations in a fairly short period of time.

I'm thinking that a civilization that can reach the Moon is more capable of
decoding more advanced messages.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

--
Greg Moore
SQL Server DBA Consulting Remote and Onsite available!
Email: sql (at) greenms.com http://www.greenms.com/sqlserver.html

In article ,
"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
Joe Strout wrote:

So this really amounts to nothing more than a lander, a robot, and $7M
or so for the launch. I'm starting to think my 2010 estimate was too
conservative!

My bet is that in 2012, you'll be here explaining how the prize
_could_ have been won in time - if only eeeeevil NASA had coughed up a
subsidized launcher, or paid more attention to unobtanium purification
tech back in the 60's, or some other handwaving.

[Greg, sorry to reply to Derek via your post, but he's in my killfile...]

Derek, you're the same nay-sayer who assured us that nobody would win
the first X Prize, either. You were wrong then, and you're wrong again.

I'll lay odds this prize won't be claimed by the current expiry date
of the prize.

I'll take that bet.

I'll also lay odds that if it is claimed prior to the expiry date, the
launch will occur on a recycled Russian ICBM.

Could be -- the field is wide open, and there are many possibilities.
Dnepr is certainly one of them.

[Replying to Greg now:]

Care to lay a bet on that Derek?

http://www.longbet.com/ we can develop some language and see what happens.

(Honestly I'm not sure one way or the other, but think it could be a fun
bet.)

Interesting. I haven't seen this site before -- I'll be curious to see
how they avoid running afoul of gambling laws.

Best,
- Joe

--
"Polywell" fusion -- an approach to nuclear fusion that might actually work.
Learn more and discuss via: http://www.strout.net/info/science/polywell/

On Sep 13, 12:21 pm, Joe Strout wrote:
Now here's something worth talking about:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070913/ap_on_hi_te/google_moon_prize

"Google Inc. is bankrolling a $30 million out-of-this-world prize to the
first private company that can safely land a robotic rover on the moon
and beam back a gigabyte of images and video to Earth, the Internet
search leader said Thursday.

"The rules call for a spacecraft to trek at least 1,312 feet across the
lunar surface and return a package of data including self-portraits,
panoramic views and near-real time videos. ...Whoever accomplishes the
feat by the end of 2012 will receive $20 million. If there is no winner,
the purse will drop to $15 million until the end of 2014 when the
contest expires. There is also a $5 million second-place prize and $5
million in bonus money to teams that go beyond the minimum requirements."

This prize seems well conceived to me -- challenging, but not
outrageous, and the second-place and bonus prizes are a nice touch,
mitigating the risk of coming in second and encouraging more diverse
entries. I predict that this will generate quite a bit of buzz, and
sometime between 2010 and 2012, somebody will win -- maybe even two
somebodies.

Comments?

They'll need at least a one-way viable fly-by-rocket lander with loads
of downrange capability, whereas that accomplishment alone might also
be a first time quest, especially since there's nothing even within
R&D prototype that's quite up to the task of demonstrating such
perfected robotic talent as is.
- Brad Guth -

On Sep 13, 4:13 pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Sep 13, 12:21 pm, Joe Strout wrote:





Now here's something worth talking about:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070913/ap_on_hi_te/google_moon_prize

"Google Inc. is bankrolling a $30 million out-of-this-world prize to the
first private company that can safely land a robotic rover on the moon
and beam back a gigabyte of images and video to Earth, the Internet
search leader said Thursday.

"The rules call for a spacecraft to trek at least 1,312 feet across the
lunar surface and return a package of data including self-portraits,
panoramic views and near-real time videos. ...Whoever accomplishes the
feat by the end of 2012 will receive $20 million. If there is no winner,
the purse will drop to $15 million until the end of 2014 when the
contest expires. There is also a $5 million second-place prize and $5
million in bonus money to teams that go beyond the minimum requirements."

This prize seems well conceived to me -- challenging, but not
outrageous, and the second-place and bonus prizes are a nice touch,
mitigating the risk of coming in second and encouraging more diverse
entries. I predict that this will generate quite a bit of buzz, and
sometime between 2010 and 2012, somebody will win -- maybe even two
somebodies.

Comments?

They'll need at least a one-way viable fly-by-rocket lander with loads
of downrange capability, whereas that accomplishment alone might also
be a first time quest, especially since there's nothing even within
R&D prototype that's quite up to the task of demonstrating such
perfected robotic talent as is.

BTW, it should not take hardly any kind of rocket, especially with
such a small robotic payload of perhaps as little as 1% the nearly 50
tonnes worth of those supposed rad-hard Apollo missions that got off
Earth within their nearly 30% inert GLOW, and otherwise stuck with
utilizing a mere 60:1 ratio of rocket per payload, plus the fact that
unlike accommodating our frail DNA there's no great hurry in getting
there (could take advantage of as much as a full lunar month or two).
- Brad Guth -

Joe Strout wrote:

In article ,
"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
Joe Strout wrote:

So this really amounts to nothing more than a lander, a robot, and $7M
or so for the launch. I'm starting to think my 2010 estimate was too
conservative!

My bet is that in 2012, you'll be here explaining how the prize
_could_ have been won in time - if only eeeeevil NASA had coughed up a
subsidized launcher, or paid more attention to unobtanium purification
tech back in the 60's, or some other handwaving.

[Greg, sorry to reply to Derek via your post, but he's in my killfile...]

Derek, you're the same nay-sayer who assured us that nobody would win
the first X Prize, either. You were wrong then, and you're wrong again.

I said no such thing, once again you add to the list of sins you
imagine I've committed, but that in reality I haven't.

I'll lay odds this prize won't be claimed by the current expiry date
of the prize.

I'll take that bet.

I wasn't betting with you.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:

I'll lay odds this prize won't be claimed by the current expiry date
of the prize.

I'll also lay odds that if it is claimed prior to the expiry date, the
launch will occur on a recycled Russian ICBM.


Care to lay a bet on that Derek?

Contact me off list, and lets set something up.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

On Sep 13, 4:26 pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Sep 13, 4:13 pm, BradGuth wrote:





On Sep 13, 12:21 pm, Joe Strout wrote:

Now here's something worth talking about:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070913/ap_on_hi_te/google_moon_prize

"Google Inc. is bankrolling a $30 million out-of-this-world prize to the
first private company that can safely land a robotic rover on the moon
and beam back a gigabyte of images and video to Earth, the Internet
search leader said Thursday.

"The rules call for a spacecraft to trek at least 1,312 feet across the
lunar surface and return a package of data including self-portraits,
panoramic views and near-real time videos. ...Whoever accomplishes the
feat by the end of 2012 will receive $20 million. If there is no winner,
the purse will drop to $15 million until the end of 2014 when the
contest expires. There is also a $5 million second-place prize and $5
million in bonus money to teams that go beyond the minimum requirements."

This prize seems well conceived to me -- challenging, but not
outrageous, and the second-place and bonus prizes are a nice touch,
mitigating the risk of coming in second and encouraging more diverse
entries. I predict that this will generate quite a bit of buzz, and
sometime between 2010 and 2012, somebody will win -- maybe even two
somebodies.

Comments?

They'll need at least a one-way viable fly-by-rocket lander with loads
of downrange capability, whereas that accomplishment alone might also
be a first time quest, especially since there's nothing even within
R&D prototype that's quite up to the task of demonstrating such
perfected robotic talent as is.

BTW, it should not take hardly any kind of rocket, especially with
such a small robotic payload of perhaps as little as 1% the nearly 50
tonnes worth of those supposed rad-hard Apollo missions that got off
Earth within their nearly 30% inert GLOW, and otherwise stuck with
utilizing a mere 60:1 ratio of rocket per payload, plus the fact that
unlike accommodating our frail DNA there's no great hurry in getting
there (could take advantage of as much as a full lunar month or two).

A one-way fly-by-rocket ticket to ride might by now actually be
doable, and with such efforts being prototype R&D demonstrable, at
least at nearly zero payload and hosting minimal fly-by-rocket down-
range capacity so as to fully simulate the 1/6th gravity.

A terrestrial R&D controlled mini-deorbit could certainly be simulated
and thereby accomplished, along with at least a km worth of controlled
down range past a simulated mascon issue, whereas the actual lunar
deorbit and electrostatic dusty down-range of demanding 10s of km
worth of multiple controlled reaction thrusting, as such might not
have to be fully proof-tested, especially if those momentum reaction
wheels are doing their thing.
- Brad Guth -

On Sep 13, 7:52 pm, (Derek Lyons) wrote:
"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:

I'll lay odds this prize won't be claimed by the current expiry date
of the prize.

I'll also lay odds that if it is claimed prior to the expiry date, the
launch will occur on a recycled Russian ICBM.

Care to lay a bet on that Derek?

Contact me off list, and lets set something up.

If you change your mind about betting with others,
let me know. You don't have to give odds, I'll
take even money up to 100 bucks.

Len

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL