Yay. In trouble with ITAR...

Pat Flannery wrote:

:
:Scott Lowther wrote:
:
:
: WTF??? Saturn V is under ITAR control? Has anyone told David Weeks?
:
:You just can't make this **** up, can you?
:

And you don't have to. Just read the bloody regulation.

:
:Somebody might want to point out to them that the Saturn V, and all
:drawings of the Saturn V, were financed by taxpayers as part of a
:civilian space project by a civilian agency, and therefore are public
roperty every bit as much as photos taken on the Moon's surface by the
:astronauts are.
:

This is the silliest 'logic' I've ever heard. The taxpayers finance
all sorts of things. A lot of them are various and assorted bits of
nastiness that we're pretty careful about letting the wrong people
have. Even the 'public property' because it was a 'civilian agency'
argument is silly. That 'public' is US CITIZENS, not 'property of the
world'. Such things are still subject to ITAR, just as your own
private property is.

:
:They are probably concerned that Iran or China will back-engineer a
:Saturn V from the drawings and get to the Moon before we return.
:This administration is completely off its rocker when it comes to
:security and classifying things.

This administration didn't write the ITAR regulations. Go read them.

:
:Most of this seems to emanate from
:Cheney's office, who I am becoming increasingly convinced is clinically
:mentally unbalanced.
:

Any evidence for any part of that last claim? Or is it just your own
mental imbalance from your own ideological hatreds?


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

"OM" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 00:31:13 GMT, Scott Lowther
wrote:

"However, just before we left KSC, a guy from the NASA Export Control
Office (which is run by some contractor, maybe Analex?) came by our
office on an "inspection" and told us we had to take down all the
Saturn V drawings we had around ... now, these were just old NAA public
relation drawings, plus a few commercially-purchased posters showing
the Saturn V internals in very rough detail. He said they were all
covered by ITAR and therefore had to be locked up! We kept telling him
some were purchased at the Visitor Center Gift Shop, but he did not
care. He ended up coming around with an armed security cop until we
took them down and shredded them."

...****'im. Send *me* copies, and I'll post them on my website, daring
the catamite to order me to take them down. I'll be more than happy to
explain where he can shove his insane attitude.


Technology leakage of ballistic missiles is the single largest
threat to the security of the United States. And if for a moment
you would stop and think before speaking such ignorant
statements. You might realize that if the agency with the
responsibility of enforcing such technology protections were
grossly understaffed, it might not have the time to sit and engage
in lengthly arguments with each and every joe blow over his
favorite poster.

And simply ban anything and everything even remotely close
to violation as a time saving measure and with no discussion
allowed.

I find it rather comforting to know that when it comes to
national security our govt errs on the side of caution.

But go ahead anyways, take a stand on this one.

I dare ya!




WTF??? Saturn V is under ITAR control? Has anyone told David Weeks?

...Have you contacted him yet about this?

OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
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]=====================================[

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:17:10 GMT, in a place far, far away, Fred J.
McCall made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:


:Most of this seems to emanate from
:Cheney's office, who I am becoming increasingly convinced is clinically
:mentally unbalanced.
:

Any evidence for any part of that last claim? Or is it just your own
mental imbalance from your own ideological hatreds?

Got it in one.

In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:

Scott Lowther wrote:

"However, just before we left KSC, a guy from the NASA Export Control
Office (which is run by some contractor, maybe Analex?) came by our
office on an "inspection" and told us we had to take down all the
Saturn V drawings we had around ... now, these were just old NAA
public relation drawings, plus a few commercially-purchased posters
showing the Saturn V internals in very rough detail. He said they
were all covered by ITAR and therefore had to be locked up! We kept
telling him some were purchased at the Visitor Center Gift Shop, but
he did not care. He ended up coming around with an armed security cop
until we took them down and shredded them."


WTF??? Saturn V is under ITAR control? Has anyone told David Weeks?

You just can't make this **** up, can you?
This reminds me of them taking the Fat Man and Little Boy off display at
the National Atomic Museum because some terrorist might learn how to
make a nuclear weapon by studying them. "So that's what we've been doing
wrong! The fins go at the _back_ end!"
Somebody might want to point out to them that the Saturn V, and all
drawings of the Saturn V, were financed by taxpayers as part of a
civilian space project by a civilian agency, and therefore are public
property every bit as much as photos taken on the Moon's surface by the
astronauts are.
They are probably concerned that Iran or China will back-engineer a
Saturn V from the drawings and get to the Moon before we return.
This administration is completely off its rocker when it comes to
security and classifying things. Most of this seems to emanate from
Cheney's office, who I am becoming increasingly convinced is clinically
mentally unbalanced.

That's life in Bush's Amerika. No doubt some 'pug will now post an
explanation of how this is all actually Bill Kkkklinton's fault.

Rand Simberg wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jul 200



:Most of this seems to emanate from
:Cheney's office, who I am becoming increasingly convinced is clinically
:mentally unbalanced.
:

Any evidence for any part of that last claim? Or is it just your own
mental imbalance from your own ideological hatreds?


Got it in one.


http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20070319&s=cottle031907
He thinks Iraq has reconstituted it's WMD program; the CIA investigates
and says it hasn't; he says the CIA is wrong and he knows it has. After
invading we find out the CIA was right.
He thinks Al-Qaeda is being trained in Iraq; the CIA investigates and
says that's not the case; he says the CIA is wrong and he knows it has.
After we invade it turns out that the CIA was right.
He thinks Iraq is secretly importing uranium from Africa; the CIA
investigates and says the report is bogus, he says the CIA is wrong and
he knows the report is true. After we invade, we find out that the CIA
was right.
This sounds a lot like Dick Cheney is a clinical paranoid.
This Newsweek article touches on that:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19886673/site/newsweek/
He spends most of his time worrying about threats to America that are
constantly forming out there in the darkness somewhere. Something bad is
going to happen soon and he's the only one who suspects it and can guard
us all against it.
Has his house been infected with anthrax? Nope. But it could happen next
week if we're not all very careful.
He reads all of the intelligence reports, no matter how minor or unreliable.
He knew that "Curveball" was right about those Iraqi portable biological
weapon trailers. Except "Curveball" was full of crap, and a fraud.
He's the only one that can see the whole truth; that can put all the
pieces together.
Who knows that there are really _two_ keys and someone has _stolen_ all
those strawberries from the U.S.S. Caine's food stocks.
I don't know exactly what the founding fathers had in mind for the
office of the VP (neither did they for that matter; the whole office is
only vaguely described in the Constitution) but something like a
scheming Grand Vizier who is always trying to thwart the constantly
evolving possible plans of Ali Baba to raise evil Djinn and overthrow
the kingdom while the dim-witted Sultan wanders around the throne room
and drools, it probably wasn't.

Pat

"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 01:29:07 -0500, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:


They are probably concerned that Iran or China will back-engineer a
Saturn V from the drawings and get to the Moon before we return.
This administration is completely off its rocker when it comes to
security and classifying things. Most of this seems to emanate from
Cheney's office, who I am becoming increasingly convinced is clinically
mentally unbalanced.

I think there's a lot more evidence of that for you than for Dick
Cheney.

Oh I don't know. When one day he's claiming executive privilege and the
next he's claiming the VP's office isn't part of the executive branch, does
make you wonder. (I note since the threat of defunding his office was made
he hasn't really tried to force that particular claim. :-)



--
Greg Moore
SQL Server DBA Consulting Remote and Onsite available!
Email: sql (at) greenms.com http://www.greenms.com/sqlserver.html

Jonathan wrote:

Technology leakage of ballistic missiles is the single largest
threat to the security of the United States.


Which has nothing to do with *this* instance. The drawings I've been
trying to sell are virtually the same as drawings being sold at the US
Space and Rocket Center gift shop... and *less* useful than drawings
produced by Weeks. The drawings I have are *not* useful for ballistic
missile design. These are drawings *published* by NASA in the open press.

I find it rather comforting to know that when it comes to
national security our govt errs on the side of caution.

Ah.... Sandy Berger.


--
-------
The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours is a fake. - H.L. Mencken

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:59:33 GMT, in a place far, far away, "Greg D.
Moore \(Strider\)" made the phosphor
on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

They are probably concerned that Iran or China will back-engineer a
Saturn V from the drawings and get to the Moon before we return.
This administration is completely off its rocker when it comes to
security and classifying things. Most of this seems to emanate from
Cheney's office, who I am becoming increasingly convinced is clinically
mentally unbalanced.

I think there's a lot more evidence of that for you than for Dick
Cheney.

Oh I don't know. When one day he's claiming executive privilege and the
next he's claiming the VP's office isn't part of the executive branch, does
make you wonder.

Not much. At least not compared to the lunacy that Pat spews on a
regular basis.

richard schumacher wrote:
That's life in Bush's Amerika. No doubt some 'pug will now post an
explanation of how this is all actually Bill Kkkklinton's fault.


They've already done that.
And I'm insane BTW. :-D

Pat

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:26:37 -0400, "Jonathan"
wrote:


"OM" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 00:31:13 GMT, Scott Lowther
wrote:

"However, just before we left KSC, a guy from the NASA Export Control
Office (which is run by some contractor, maybe Analex?) came by our
office on an "inspection" and told us we had to take down all the
Saturn V drawings we had around ... now, these were just old NAA public
relation drawings, plus a few commercially-purchased posters showing
the Saturn V internals in very rough detail. He said they were all
covered by ITAR and therefore had to be locked up! We kept telling him
some were purchased at the Visitor Center Gift Shop, but he did not
care. He ended up coming around with an armed security cop until we
took them down and shredded them."

...****'im. Send *me* copies, and I'll post them on my website, daring
the catamite to order me to take them down. I'll be more than happy to
explain where he can shove his insane attitude.


Technology leakage of ballistic missiles is the single largest
threat to the security of the United States. And if for a moment
you would stop and think before speaking such ignorant
statements. You might realize that if the agency with the
responsibility of enforcing such technology protections were
grossly understaffed, it might not have the time to sit and engage
in lengthly arguments with each and every joe blow over his
favorite poster.

And simply ban anything and everything even remotely close
to violation as a time saving measure and with no discussion
allowed.

I find it rather comforting to know that when it comes to
national security our govt errs on the side of caution.


Uh yeah. Which is why I was able to download a 330 page writeup on
Peacekeeper complete with drawings of many deployment schemes studied,
another one on HiBEX and LoADS (ABM systems) and so forth. All from
the Defense Technical Information Center. So where's the rational of
hounding someone about having civilian stuff out there for download
when all the while you (the government that is) have all this MILITARY
stuff out there for the taking?