$4 billion a month!

http://www.optusnet.com.au/news/stor...raq-occupation
-mid.inp

That's how much Iraq is costing just the U.S. - almost enough for a new
manned Moon program every month.

Despicable!

--
Alan Erskine
alanerskine(at)optusnet.com.au
Where are the Weapons of Mass
Destruction, Mr Bush?

Alan Erskine wrote:

That's how much Iraq is costing just the U.S. - almost enough for a new
manned Moon program every month.

And about three seconds worth of failed social welfare programs.
Prioritise!

--
Scott Lowther, Engineer

"Any statement by Edward Wright that starts with 'You seem to think
that...' is wrong. Always. It's a law of Usenet, like Godwin's."
- Jorge R. Frank, 11 Nov 2002

Scott Lowther wrote:
Alan Erskine wrote:


That's how much Iraq is costing just the U.S. - almost enough for a new
manned Moon program every month.


And about three seconds worth of failed social welfare programs.
Prioritise!


$1.33 billion/sec for social welfare programs. Okaaaay.

Here's a nice pie chart of FY 2001:
http://www.assmotax.org/Data/fedbud.php

I believe most of what you call "failed social welfare programs" comes
under "Income security" which totaled $228 billion. $48 billion of that
is Federal workers retirement and disability which I don't regard as
welfare. I believe $180 billion is what we spent on social welfare in 2001.

$180 billion is a very distant third behind 2001's military expense (310
billion subtracting military retirement etc.) and Debt service (356
billion).

I expect Military and Debt Service to surge even further ahead.

Bush cuts taxes and increases spending. He's taking the U.S. deeper into
credit card heaven. Here is a cartoon I made depicting this:
http://clowder.net/hop/etc./Bush.jpg

Hop
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

Hop David wrote:

Scott Lowther wrote:
Alan Erskine wrote:


That's how much Iraq is costing just the U.S. - almost enough for a new
manned Moon program every month.


And about three seconds worth of failed social welfare programs.
Prioritise!


$1.33 billion/sec for social welfare programs. Okaaaay.

Here's a nice pie chart of FY 2001:
http://www.assmotax.org/Data/fedbud.php

That, oddly, does not include Social Security, which is as memory serves
a bigger chunk than the military.


I expect Military and Debt Service to surge even further ahead.

Bush cuts taxes and increases spending. He's taking the U.S. deeper into
credit card heaven. Here is a cartoon I made depicting this:
http://clowder.net/hop/etc./Bush.jpg

A masterpiece. A masterpiece of half truths, of course. Cutting tax
rates (thank you, Rand) stimulates the economy, and leads the increased
tax REVENUES (you know that word, yes?). Fighting "expensive" wars such
as Iraq *now*, when we can fight them on our own terms on the enemies
territory is, of course, far cheaper than sitting on our asses and
waiting for them to destroy American cities. Imagine how much better off
Britain would have been had they in 1936 decided to wage an "expensive"
war and slap down Hitler, or how much better off the US economy would be
had the Clinton administration spent a few extra pennies and taken down
bin Laden when given the chance, and thus prevented the hundredss of
billions in economic damage due to 9-11. But I guess preventative
measures are nowhere near as interesting as simply misrepresnting the
situation for political gain, eh?


--
Scott Lowther, Engineer

"Any statement by Edward Wright that starts with 'You seem to think
that...' is wrong. Always. It's a law of Usenet, like Godwin's."
- Jorge R. Frank, 11 Nov 2002

Scott Lowther wrote:

Hop David wrote:

Scott Lowther wrote:
Alan Erskine wrote:


That's how much Iraq is costing just the U.S. - almost enough for a new
manned Moon program every month.


And about three seconds worth of failed social welfare programs.
Prioritise!


$1.33 billion/sec for social welfare programs. Okaaaay.

Here's a nice pie chart of FY 2001:
http://www.assmotax.org/Data/fedbud.php
I believe most of what you call "failed social welfare programs" comes
under "Income security" which totaled $228 billion. $48 billion of that
is Federal workers retirement and disability which I don't regard as
welfare. I believe $180 billion is what we spent on social welfare in 2001.

$180 billion is a very distant third behind 2001's military expense (310
billion subtracting military retirement etc.) and Debt service (356
billion).

That, oddly, does not include Social Security, which is as memory serves
a bigger chunk than the military.

Ah, here we go:
http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2001/guide02.html

For 1999 actual numbers ($Billions):
Military: 262
nonDoD Discrectioanry: 313
Social Security: 387
Medicare/medicaid: 296
Means-tested entitlements: 104
Other: 112

Now, my math may be a little rusty, but I suspect that $262B is somewhat
less than $387B + $296B + $104B. And that $387B + $296B + $104B is
rather MORE than $180B.

--
Scott Lowther, Engineer

"Any statement by Edward Wright that starts with 'You seem to think
that...' is wrong. Always. It's a law of Usenet, like Godwin's."
- Jorge R. Frank, 11 Nov 2002

Scott Lowther wrote:

Ah, here we go:
http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2001/guide02.html

For 1999 actual numbers ($Billions):
Military: 262
nonDoD Discrectioanry: 313
Social Security: 387
Medicare/medicaid: 296

My father-in-law spent most of his life as a heavy equipment operator.
My dad worked most of his life in printshops. They both received social
security and medicare benefits. Are you saying they were welfare parasites?

Means-tested entitlements: 104
Other: 112

Now, my math may be a little rusty, but I suspect that $262B is somewhat
less than $387B + $296B + $104B. And that $387B + $296B + $104B is
rather MORE than $180B.


For the sake of argument I'll accept 787 billion/year going to crackhead
welfare cheats. That's about $25000/sec. I believe $25000/sec is rather
less than $4 billion/3 seconds.

Hop
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

Scott Lowther :

Scott Lowther wrote:

Hop David wrote:

Scott Lowther wrote:
Alan Erskine wrote:


That's how much Iraq is costing just the U.S. - almost enough for a
new
manned Moon program every month.


And about three seconds worth of failed social welfare programs.
Prioritise!


$1.33 billion/sec for social welfare programs. Okaaaay.

Here's a nice pie chart of FY 2001:
http://www.assmotax.org/Data/fedbud.php
I believe most of what you call "failed social welfare programs" comes
under "Income security" which totaled $228 billion. $48 billion of that
is Federal workers retirement and disability which I don't regard as
welfare. I believe $180 billion is what we spent on social welfare in
2001.

$180 billion is a very distant third behind 2001's military expense
(310
billion subtracting military retirement etc.) and Debt service (356
billion).

That, oddly, does not include Social Security, which is as memory serves
a bigger chunk than the military.

Ah, here we go:
http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2001/guide02.html

For 1999 actual numbers ($Billions):
Military: 262
nonDoD Discrectioanry: 313
Social Security: 387
Medicare/medicaid: 296
Means-tested entitlements: 104
Other: 112

Now, my math may be a little rusty, but I suspect that $262B is somewhat
less than $387B + $296B + $104B. And that $387B + $296B + $104B is
rather MORE than $180B.

Thanks, Still more useful information. I see I am going to be doing a lot of
reading this weekend.

To those of you out there who wonder why I am acting this way, it is simple -
Atleast David and Scott are suppling figures behind their beliefs. Too many
time this group is filled with people who claim that thier way is best
without post any numbers to back thier claims. Numbers can be made to lie,
but you can only twist them so far before it stands out that you are making
false claims. Here I get a chance to review and make up my own mind. I just
wish more space.policy threads supplied numbers with thier arguements.

Earl Colby Pottinger


--
I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos,
SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to
the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp

Hop David :


Scott Lowther wrote:
Alan Erskine wrote:


That's how much Iraq is costing just the U.S. - almost enough for a new
manned Moon program every month.


And about three seconds worth of failed social welfare programs.
Prioritise!


$1.33 billion/sec for social welfare programs. Okaaaay.

Here's a nice pie chart of FY 2001:
http://www.assmotax.org/Data/fedbud.php

I believe most of what you call "failed social welfare programs" comes
under "Income security" which totaled $228 billion. $48 billion of that
is Federal workers retirement and disability which I don't regard as
welfare. I believe $180 billion is what we spent on social welfare in 2001.

$180 billion is a very distant third behind 2001's military expense (310
billion subtracting military retirement etc.) and Debt service (356
billion).

I expect Military and Debt Service to surge even further ahead.

Bush cuts taxes and increases spending. He's taking the U.S. deeper into
credit card heaven. Here is a cartoon I made depicting this:
http://clowder.net/hop/etc./Bush.jpg

Hop
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

Again, while I don't agree with you at the moment, thanks for the additional
URL.

Earl Colby Pottinger

--
I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos,
SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to
the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:03:18 +1000, "Alan Erskine"
wrote:

http://www.optusnet.com.au/news/stor...raq-occupation
-mid.inp

That's how much Iraq is costing just the U.S. - almost enough for a new
manned Moon program every month.

Don't forget that the US has had a sizable military presence in the
Middle East continuously since 1991 (including during eight years of
Clinton). Prince Sultan Air Base, Saudi Arabia (now mothballed) for
example. The actual cost over previous years is not that great.

Despicable!

Australia did not participate militarily in Operation Iraqi Freedom.
Please ask your government to take that $4 Billion a month they're
saving and spend it on a manned Moon program.

Report back your results, please.

Brian

Brian Thorn wrote...
...
Australia did not participate militarily in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Huh?

* 250 airmen and women and support crews deployed with a squadron of
14 F/A-18 Royal Australian Air Force Hornet fighter aircraft.

* 150 personnel deployed with three RAAF C130 Hercules transport
aircraft.

* 150 personnel deployed with two P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft.

* An Air Forward Command Element of about 70 personnel responsible for
coordinating air operations with coalition partners and providing
national control of RAAF assets.

* 350 sailors and soldiers embarked on the sea transport ship HMAS
Kanimbla with a Sea King helicopter, Army landing craft and Army air
defence detachment and a specialist explosives ordnance team.

* 600 personnel embarked on Royal Australian Navy frigates HMAS Anzac
and Darwin, who have been part of the Multinational Interception Force
enforcing United Nations sanctions against Iraq.

* A Navy clearance diver team capable of locating, rendering safe and
disposing of mines.

* A Special Forces Task Group of about 500 personnel. The Task Group
comprises an advance party including a Special Air Service squadron,
CH-47 troop-lift helicopters and personnel from 5th Aviation Regiment,
specialist troops to deal with the threat of weapons of mass
destruction drawn from the newly-established Incident Response
Regiment based at Holsworthy, New South Wales and a quick reaction
support force drawn from the Holsworthy-based 4RAR Commando unit.

* An Australian National Headquarters of approximately 60 personnel,
headed by the Australian National Commander, Brigadier Maurie McNarn.

I guess if you don't count the 2,000 Australian personnel and the
military hardware that accompanied them, and the specialist operations
that they performed on and off the battlefield, then you have a point.
Considering Australia's population, and Australia's commitment to
other operations, this was a very substantial contribution.

Read a newspaper and....

Report back your results, please.

Monte.