Mystery scopes on eBay

I think there should be a way for those who may happen to produce a
professional product to be allowed to engage in small arms trade with other
amateurs with impunity. For example if Roland Christen wants to sell his
personal hand grenade that he bought used from GI Joe on Amart without having
to become a sponsor, it would be nice if there could be a means by which he
would be allowed to do so. After all, I may wish to purchase it (not that there
is anyone that I am thinking of blowing up)...
rat
~( );

email: remove 'et' from .com(et) in above email address

"John Steinberg" wrote in message news:seesig-
This ballot pertains to allowing Michael Covington, Ph.D., to use
Astromart as a free service
snip

This ballot pertains to John et al (not just picking on you John) taking ALL
of the headaches and problems and time and expenses (and saa flames)
involved in running astromart, and spending the required time every day to
consider every case like Michael's and to simultaneously keep everybody
happy (since they want Herb to keep them happy).

[X] Yes

[ ] No

[X] I wish to remain anonymous.

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor BA, BS, PhD, BVD, M&M (plain & peanut)
Do you observe the moon?
Try the Lunar Observing Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

I am grateful to Herb for the Astromart Forums, which I enjoy a lot. And
from what I can tell, Astromart is a lot better place to buy and sell
astronomical items than is ebay, so I am grateful for that opportunity
although I am neither a buyer nor a seller..
As an author myself, I naturally feel that Michael Covington, spending
lots of time writing helpful books for a very modest financial return,
should not be classified as a vendor. But I don't think Herb deserves the
sarcasm and the angry upbraiding he has received from some posters in this
thread
Happy Thanksgiving
Bill Meyers

"Chuck Taylor" wrote in message
...
How about if we force Herb to crawl from Anacortes to your house, kneel on
your porch and loudly beg for your forgiveness, shoot him, hang the body
in
the street for crowds to beat, and then give you the job of running
astromart --- would this make you happy?

I'm not entirely sure whom you're addressing, but I hope it wasn't me. As I
said in the other thread ("Mystery Scopes on eBay") Herb has a right to run
his business however he wants. Many of us are of the opinion he would
benefit from running it differently, but it's entirely up to him to decide
whether to do it that way. Most vendors like to know what their customers
wish for, even if they have good reasons for not granting the wishes.

We may disagree with Herb, but we shouldn't insult or disparage him. He is
one of our colleagues and has been providing us a valuable service.

This was originally a thread about why some people use eBay rather than
Astromart. One answer is that some astronomy enthusiasts, such as me, are
classified as commercial users and would have to pay a fee to use Astromart,
but we don't actually want to do enough selling to justify the fee, and
that's why some of us don't use Astromart.

Although we have our disagreements, Herb and I have already expressed our
respect for each other in this forum.

I don't think there's anything more to be said, so perhaps we can close out
this thread now.

Happy Thanksgiving, all.


--
Clear skies,

Michael Covington -- www.covingtoninnovations.com
Author, Astrophotography for the Amateur
and (new) How to Use a Computerized Telescope

"Herb York" wrote in message ws.com...
Thank you DougE for MORE words of wisdom.
Time to enjoy the family.

Herb
AstroMart

Herb, if I am mistaken, and you did create Astromart, I appologize for
the error.

If it wasn't you, and I am wrong about WHO actually created Astromart,
please note that I did say that I "think" it was the Starry Messenger
guy.

If I am correct that you bought Astromart from somebody else, or took
over the job of running it, please explain your comment.

Doug Hosey

"Chuck Taylor" wrote in message ...
How about if we force Herb to crawl from Anacortes to your house, kneel on
your porch and loudly beg for your forgiveness, shoot him, hang the body in
the street for crowds to beat, and then give you the job of running
astromart --- would this make you happy?



How about if we force you to use your brain. Herb was not the one
that crucified me for criticizing Astromart. It was his blind
followers, like yourself.

I got nothing against Herb, and nothing against 99.999% of the people
that use Astromart. I said that I did not like one or two things
about the way he runs Astromart, explained e-x-a-c-t-l-y why, and you
and your like start foaming at the mouth 'cuz I said something that
you don't like about Astromart. I got news for you Chuck, Herb is not
God. I don't even think he is Jesus...so, you don't have to lynch
everybody that disagrees with Him.

You once suggested that we should be "friends," but now you come off
with this crap. You are now joining the company of just one other
S.A.A.'er, the Cheerio guy, who have attained the position of least
possible respect. It is not something I do lightly, as so many others
love to announce they've "plonked" somebody, since I don't have a
killfile, and must conciously ignore you, it has taken considerable
effort on your part to reach this level. Congratulations, you've made
it. In other words, as of now, you do not exist. I actually am
somewhat sorry about that.

I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by
(Doogie Hoosier) on 27 Nov 2003 04:38:38 -0800,
which said:

...since I don't have a
killfile, and must conciously ignore you, it has taken considerable
effort on your part to reach this level. Congratulations, you've made
it. In other words, as of now, you do not exist. I actually am
somewhat sorry about that.

Why? Killfiles are one of the greatest of God's gifts.to humanity.
Where else but the internet can you make all your enemies and problems
disappear with just one or two mouse clicks? Killfiles are wonderful!


-------------
Beady's 11th Law of Social Harmonics: "Your spouse is precisely the kind of person someone like you would choose to marry."

"Michael A. Covington" wrote in message ...
Correction. I don't have an account with astromart (unless I pay the
price). I'm in the same boat with you, Covington and others. The only
difference is that I recognize Herb's right to operate his business the
way
he sees fit. I don't waste my time, effort and bandwidth arguing an issue
I
can't win.

Let me add that I, too, recognize Herb's right to run his own business.
Many of us think he would benefit from some policy changes (the biggest of
which would be to disclose the rules more explicitly on his web pages). We
hope he will find it instructive to learn that many people wish he would
make some changes. But it's up to him to decide what to do.

The comparisons to dictators and lower forms of life, earlier in this
thread, are inappropriate. Herb is one of our colleagues. If he hadn't
gone to the effort of creating it, there would have been no Astromart (and
no Astrofieds or other competitors). Astromart provided, and provides, a
valuable service to the community. It also got Anacortes Telescope (Herb's
business) "on the map" and established it as a major full-line telescope
supplier in just a short time.

As for "an issue we can't win" -- Most reasonable merchants listen to
feedback from potential customers. They may have good reasons for not doing
what the potential customers ask for, but the information is useful to them
nonetheless.

Herb is not a dictator, or despot. I said that despots use the
"opinions" of the voters to blame for actions that they take, when it
serves them to do so.

In your case, I think Herb has done the same thing as the
despot--blame the "ones who actually made the decision."

I do not think you are a manufacturer, or dealer. I think the effort
you put into your books was not motivated by profit, but by your
desire to guide newcomers (and oldtimers) in this hobby. Not that it
has anything to do with your Astromart account. It doesn't, or at
least it shouldn't.

I still think Herb's peer review group was set up to decide who is a
"dealer" by virtue of their activities on Astromart. I think asking
them to decide your fate because you write books was not called for.

And yes, Herb can and will do whatever he pleases with Astromart. And
making what one might consider to be "helpful suggestions" for
managing Astromart is unwise. It will get you roasted. It will get
you accused of Herb-bashing. It will get you hate mail. It will get
you heartburn, if you give a damn.

As far as why Herb considers you to be a dealer, in the absence of an
explanation from Herb, I can only guess. Maybe one of your ads
featured a link to your website, or a reference to your book(s).
Maybe that broke a rule, but it does not make you a dealer. Maybe
once you've broken such a rule, you are never again a "civilian" in
Herb's eyes.

Doug Hosey

"Herb York" wrote in message ws.com...
AND: (same guy upon receiving the SPONSOR link)

Hello, I read the webpage you sent me a link for. This is rediculous. I am
not a dealer or manufacturer. I am just a guy who saw a way to help out
other people who had the same problem I did. Needed a hand controller for
the Celestar & could not find one. My proffit is almost nothing once you
account for parts & shipping. I take a very small percentage for my time in
building these things which takes about an hour each. You expect me to pay
for ad space to sell a product that is offered more as a kindly gesture to
others like me who own a Celestar & need a hand controller. I dont think so.
Nor will I recamend your website to any of my fellow astronomers. This is an
outrage!!! All I am trying to do is help other Celestar owners & you people
expect me to pay for it. I have my ads up at other astronomy classifieds
websites, I do not need you & as far as I am concerned niether do the other
tens of thousands of Celestar owners world wide!


Good Day!


Good day to you.

Herb
AstroMart

PS spelling is his this time



"Herb York" wrote in message
s.com...
This guy is today's OEM that I owe because he is just trying to help the
amateur community and isn't making anything and I am a bad guy
and........etc etc

http://www.astromart.com/messages.as...d=140094&page=

Trying to make everyone happy is a tough job.

Herb
AstroMart



I would call that person both a manufacturer and a dealer.
Is it Michael? Doesn't "sound" like him.

Doug Hosey

"Al" wrote in message ...
Doogie,

Do you remember being a kid and playing baseball in the schoolyard? I
remember meeting all the kids on Saturday morning and playing baseball the
rest of the day.

No, I have no such memories. I grew up on a farm and had better
things to do.

In my group, Pete almost always brought the bat and ball,
and Pete always got first choice in picking those he wanted on his team.
One day, a new kid asked Pete, "why do you always get the first choice?" Of
course, Pete responded, "it's my bat and ball!"

Sounds like Pete was an ass.

Well, Doogie, it's the same
kind of thing here with Herb.

Not quite, unless when you suggest that Pete let somebody else have
first choice all the other kids start kicking you. I also bet that
Pete did not keep the counsel of an attorney because he was operating
a public/private enterprise.

You can **** and moan to your hearts content,
but in the end, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference.

You can make honest, serious suggestions for improvement and it won't
make a damn bit of difference either.

The bat and ball
belong to Herb.

And that makes Herb what?...King? Somebody that should never be
criticized by anyone? Somebody you have to suck up to if you want the
respect of the other ball players? Did you go along with Pete just
because he had the bat and ball? Was playing baseball so important to
you that you couldn't tell Pete he was wrong and walk away? Did you
not dare suggest to Pete that he consider letting somebody else get
first choice?

Al

I've lived over five decades without playing a game of baseball. All
the Pete's in the world can have/make all the rules they want. I said
that I would make no more "suggestions" for improvement at Astromart,
it is not my concern. Right now, I am only showing my support for
Michael (whether he wants it or not), because I think he's been
wrongly accused of being a manufacturer. I would do the same if I saw
"Pete" wrongly telling you that you could not play ball for some bogus
reason.

Doug