Space Policy: Why Mars should be our top priority.

On May 23, 12:58*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Marvin the Martian wrote:

:On Fri, 22 May 2009 12:23:47 -0700, Fred J. McCall wrote:
:
: Marvin the Martian wrote: :
: : Getting from there to the surface of the Moon is an additional 5.7
: kps : or so. *Remember that number.
: :
: :It remains true that "3.3 km/s from LEO to Mars surface *is less than
: 5.7 :km/s *from LEO to the lunar surface". :
:
: Yes, that remains true. *Now if only it was true that you could get from
: LEO to Mars surface with a delta V of only 3.3 kps.
:
: : snip argument that ignores aerobraking and includes argumentum ad
: :hominem
: :
:
: Yes, it was horribly ad hominem of me to ask you to actually explain how
: you're going to achieve over 70% or your required delta-V to get from
: Mars Transfer Orbit down to the surface from aerobraking, given the
: nature of the atmosphere of Mars.
:
: :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileeltavs.svg:
: :Anyone who doubts can study this figure. Numbers speak louder than name
: :calling.
:
: Yes, they do. *You claimed it required 3.3 kps delta-V to get from LEO
: to Mars surface. *Add it up:
:
: LEO-GTO = 2.5 kps
: GTO-C3 = 0.7 kps = 3.2 kps total
: C3-MTO = 0.6 kps = 3.8 kps total
:
: So we see that you cannot even make Mars Transfer Orbit for the 3.3 kps
: that you've claimed will get you clear down to a landing on Mars.
:
: Obviously your aerobraking scheme must CREATE fuel...
:
: To get from MTO down to the Mars surface (ignoring aerobraking) requires
: another 6.4 kps of velocity change. *So you only need to be able to get
: back 6.9 kps of that 6.4 kps via aerobraking for your numbers to add up.
:
: Good luck with that.
:
:I quoted Zubrin's book for the 3.3 km/s delta V from LEO to Mars surface..
:
:I quoted Wikipedia for the 3.8 km/s delta V from LEO to Mars surface.
:
:It is a logical fallacy to say that the difference is proof you can't
:land on mars, and absolutely childish to say aerobraking creates fuel.
:
:The difference comes from the eccentricity of the orbit of Mars, 0.093.
:This causes great differences in the delta V required to get to Mars.
:
:Yes, Zubrin's number is optimistically low, but not inaccurate.
:
:The delta V to Mars is not a constant.
:

And I note you *STILL* avoid talking about how you're going to manage
to get over 70% of the delta-V required to get from Mars Transfer
Orbit down to the surface from aerobraking. *You avoid it because you
have no clue how it can be done, and neither does anyone else.

Your ass is hanging out on this one. *Time to pull up your trousers
and stop saying stupid things about how Mars is easier to get to than
the Moon.

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
*only stupid."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine

Apparently the notions of having any sufficient retrorocket fuel
simply doesn't compute, perhaps because it's in some kind of stealth
surplus.

A few extra hundred billion for sending a robotic fuel tanker to orbit
Mars at it's L1 might not be as hard as it sounds. Doing one of its
moon L1 orbits should also be technically doable. Even our William
Mook seems to think we all have way too much spare loot and a surplus
of expertise and proven technology as is.

Why didn't BHO put Zubrin or Mook in charge of our NASA? (perhaps
because BHO isn't insane)

~ BG