NASA 2011 budget and Ares-1

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:46:40 -0500, Michael Gallagher
wrote:

I wasn't talking about the launch vehicle. I was talking about what
you'd launch with it. You still have to do that step.

True, but that's putting the cart before the horse.

Not the upgraded ENGINE. The upgraded ROCKET. See this PDF:

http://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/produc...tCardFinal.pdf

Note on page 2 "Delta 4 performance and growth options." The upgrades
there have lifting power approaching that of the Saturn V. That
upgrade.

We don't need performance growth. What do we need in deep space that
can't be launched in 50,000 lbs. or smaller pieces? The Apollo CSM
launched with a light fuel load on a ~40,000 lbs. capacity Saturn IB
and the LM was only 33,000 lbs.

Brian

In article ,
Derek Lyons wrote:
Pat Flannery wrote:

Derek Lyons wrote:

None of which changes the fact - the emergency oygen system has killed
110 people without ever saving a single life.


We're heading into trollville here, aren't we?

Nope. just hoping desperately, that people would be willing to
actually discuss things rather than constructing a strawman and
debunking that and then declaring the discussion over.

One of the reasons for the decline of these groups is that they slowly
devolved into repeating the same slogans, the same dogma, the same
groupthink, the same, the same.

When that happens - what reason is left to continue?

I understand your point, Derek, but I don't think you can say with certainty
that the emergency oxygen systems have never saved a life. To say that, we'd
really need to run the same disaster scenario twice, once with and once without
the oxygen masks. It might be that the masks popping down have saved lives by
preventing some folks from having heart attacks during depressurization
events. Maybe just by popping out and being reassuring in a silly dangly orange
way. Or by giving people something that they believe is purposeful to do during
a time of great stress.

I do think it is probably fair to say that it is not clear that the emergency
oxygen systems on commercial aircraft have ever saved a life during a depressurization
event.





--
--

Craig Bingman wrote:
I understand your point, Derek, but I don't think you can say with certainty
that the emergency oxygen systems have never saved a life. To say that, we'd
really need to run the same disaster scenario twice, once with and once without
the oxygen masks. It might be that the masks popping down have saved lives by
preventing some folks from having heart attacks during depressurization
events. Maybe just by popping out and being reassuring in a silly dangly orange
way. Or by giving people something that they believe is purposeful to do during
a time of great stress.

And we need a placebo group to check this out where the oxygen masks
come down but _don't_ deliver oxygen to the passengers.
And another group where instead of oxygen masks, live tarantulas descend
onto the passenger's faces to see how many heart attacks that would
generate in times of extreme stress. Then there are those venomous
snakes in the cargo hold to consider. Tell the passengers about those
right after takeoff, and note if any have heart attacks right then and
there, or if it takes a flight attendant with a rubber snake attached to
her throat running screaming through the cabin to get the desired
effect. ;-)

Pat

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...
Craig Bingman wrote:
I understand your point, Derek, but I don't think you can say with
certainty
that the emergency oxygen systems have never saved a life. To say that,
we'd
really need to run the same disaster scenario twice, once with and once
without
the oxygen masks. It might be that the masks popping down have saved
lives by
preventing some folks from having heart attacks during depressurization
events. Maybe just by popping out and being reassuring in a silly dangly
orange
way. Or by giving people something that they believe is purposeful to do
during
a time of great stress.

And we need a placebo group to check this out where the oxygen masks come
down but _don't_ deliver oxygen to the passengers.
And another group where instead of oxygen masks, live tarantulas descend
onto the passenger's faces to see how many heart attacks that would
generate in times of extreme stress. Then there are those venomous snakes
in the cargo hold to consider. Tell the passengers about those right after
takeoff, and note if any have heart attacks right then and there, or if it
takes a flight attendant with a rubber snake attached to her throat
running screaming through the cabin to get the desired effect. ;-)

Snakes, on a plane!?!?!?!?! :-O

Jeff
--
"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National
Lampoon

Jeff Findley wrote:

Then there are those venomous snakes
in the cargo hold to consider. Tell the passengers about those right after
takeoff, and note if any have heart attacks right then and there, or if it
takes a flight attendant with a rubber snake attached to her throat
running screaming through the cabin to get the desired effect. ;-)

Snakes, on a plane!?!?!?!?! :-O

Mofo right!
Sometimes they get on submarines also:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071494/plotsummary
BTW, _it_ is coming:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_461677.html
I'm almost peeing with anticipation! ;-)

Pat

In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:
And we need a placebo group to check this out where the oxygen masks
come down but _don't_ deliver oxygen to the passengers.
...

I think it is difficult to make categorical statements about what might
have happened differently if supplemental oxygen masks were not depoloyed.
The group of people who fly on commercial airlines aren't exactly NASA
astronauts. There is a huge crosssection of ages and health issues that
are not well sampled by tests performed on 24 year old males in peak
physical condition.

Craig
--
--

I think one of the main advantages of the masks would be in a case where
there was smoke in the cabin that was causing respiratory distress to
the passengers before they had a chance to land and evacuate.

Pat

Well according to the TV show Air Emergency on national geographic
pilots are trained to NOT deploy the emergency oxygen in case of
smoke / fire since it will just feed the fire.

On 2/26/2010 11:54 AM, Craig Bingman wrote:

I think it is difficult to make categorical statements about what might
have happened differently if supplemental oxygen masks were not depoloyed.
The group of people who fly on commercial airlines aren't exactly NASA
astronauts. There is a huge crosssection of ages and health issues that
are not well sampled by tests performed on 24 year old males in peak
physical condition.

I think one of the main advantages of the masks would be in a case where
there was smoke in the cabin that was causing respiratory distress to
the passengers before they had a chance to land and evacuate.

Pat

Why are You always so worried about starting a FIRE! in a vacuum container,
Bissle anyones.
wrote in message
...

I think one of the main advantages of the masks would be in a case where
there was smoke in the cabin that was causing respiratory distress to
the passengers before they had a chance to land and evacuate.

Pat

Well according to the TV show Air Emergency on national geographic
pilots are trained to NOT deploy the emergency oxygen in case of
smoke / fire since it will just feed the fire.