Mystery scopes on eBay

You guys are really funny. I just love this thread. Hey, face it.
E-bay is a great place to buy and sell. I have bought and sold scopes
on E-bay. I've gotten very good prices for the stuff I have sold, and
got marginal deals for the stuff I have bought.

E-bay is by far the preferred place for anyone to sell their product.
It is a great place to buy as long as you are reasonably careful. As
far as I can tell, if I'm not getting a guarantee, I don't buy a scope
used until I can look through it - regardless of where I am buying it
from.

Gil Violette

Bottomline:

Good place to sell, Buyers beware. If you are not capable of carefully
evaluating a scope, avoid it.

That sound about right?

jon

Herb York wrote:

I have never attended a Star Party as a vendor but have paid as one all but
once at TMSP and have donated tens of thousands of dollars of door prizes
for many that we haven't even attended.
What did your company do for the amateur community today Greg?
ATWB/AstroMart has nothing to be ashamed of as it pertains to donating back
to the community - how about your glass house?
Herb

Glass house? That is an illogical response. I never once accused you
of not "donating back to the amateur community." Logic dictates that I
would have had to in order for your "glass house" comment to apply.

This is all a smoke screen to hide the real issue. Otherwise why bring
it up? Why attack my charitability? It just clouds the real issue, and
there is a real issue here.

So what about the real issue Mr. Charitable? Please provide us with a
rational reason (other than "because I say so") that Michael should not
be allowed to buy and sell on Astromart as long as he behaves himself?
To arbitrarily exclude him even after it has been established that he
has nothing to sell is hardly charitable.

Clear skies,
Greg

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools Software for the Observer:
http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html

Skyhound Observing Pages:
http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html

Nothing then - huh Greg?

Herb


"Greg Crinklaw" wrote in message
...
Herb York wrote:

I have never attended a Star Party as a vendor but have paid as one all
but
once at TMSP and have donated tens of thousands of dollars of door
prizes
for many that we haven't even attended.
What did your company do for the amateur community today Greg?
ATWB/AstroMart has nothing to be ashamed of as it pertains to donating
back
to the community - how about your glass house?
Herb

Glass house? That is an illogical response. I never once accused you
of not "donating back to the amateur community." Logic dictates that I
would have had to in order for your "glass house" comment to apply.

This is all a smoke screen to hide the real issue. Otherwise why bring
it up? Why attack my charitability? It just clouds the real issue, and
there is a real issue here.

So what about the real issue Mr. Charitable? Please provide us with a
rational reason (other than "because I say so") that Michael should not
be allowed to buy and sell on Astromart as long as he behaves himself?
To arbitrarily exclude him even after it has been established that he
has nothing to sell is hardly charitable.

Clear skies,
Greg

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools Software for the Observer:
http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html

Skyhound Observing Pages:
http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html

"Jon Isaacs" wrote in message
...

E-bay is by far the preferred place for anyone to sell their product.
It is a great place to buy as long as you are reasonably careful.
....

Good place to sell, Buyers beware. If you are not capable of carefully
evaluating a scope, avoid it.

That sound about right?

Exactly. Buying on eBay is like building your own PC. You have to take
technical responsibility entirely into your own hands. If you do, you can
get real bargains.

Herb York wrote:
Nothing then - huh Greg?

Maybe, maybe not--but I agree with Greg that it seems irrelevant to the
question at hand.

I think we can all appreciate that you may have very good reasons for
making the decisions you do, and furthermore that you may not wish to
share those reasons. That's your prerogative. But I think it makes
sense to also point out that as long as you make those decisions without
sharing the reasons, people are going to ask questions.

If you're OK with that, I'm certainly OK with it. But you'll also have
live with my saying that I don't really understand it very well.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt

Hello, Howard,
I suspect that writing a book on amateur astronomy is usually a losing
financial proposition, if you take into account the number of hours required to
write it and compare that number to the financial return to the author.
Michael's books are to some extent gifts from him to the amateur astronomical
community, recompensed only modestly from author's royalties. To classify him
as a vendor is to parody economic analysis.
Bill Meyers

Howard Lester wrote:

"Michael A. Covington" wrote

Here's the crux of it. Astromart would lose nothing, and would gain some
good will, by allowing *limited* personal use of Astromart by dealers --
even if buying-only.

It would expand the market for Astromart's sellers. The Astromart
community
ought to benefit from this.

Thoughts, anyone?

I think Herb is a poop-head. ;^) Seriously, you're neither a dealer nor a
seller, so I don't know what the problem is. Heck, *I* am allowed to be a
no-fee member, and I am gainfully employed in astronomy.

Howard Lester
MMT Observatory

Okay - I will have to live with it.
I can do that - He has been determined to be an OEM by a 23 member group
that has 21 voting members that voted 79% he is.
I can live with that - he says he can live with it and that is that .....
Now back to something else - okay?
Thanks
Herb
AstroMart



"Brian Tung" wrote in message
...
snip

If you're OK with that, I'm certainly OK with it. But you'll also have
live with my saying that I don't really understand it very well.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt

Okay, I'll bite: what is a Darwin award?
Bill Meyers

John Steinberg wrote:

Herb York wrote:

Love to do this all day but my family is here for a few days and I think I
will go an enjoy them

And thus, gentle reader, we learn first hand how an herbivore becomes a
omnivore. A Darwin award winner if ever there was one.

Me, I'm a vegetarian, not because I love animals, but rather because I
hate vegetables.

--
-John Steinberg
email: lid

-= I link therefore I'm spammed =-

Jon Isaacs wrote:
Making judgements about conmpassion is a risky game.

I am not seeing you giving Herb much compassion.

I think compassion is sort of a red herring here. It seems to me that
Michael's issue as he has aired it here is one of making it clear what
the criteria are. Making the decisions clear, as well as the finality
of those decisions, reduces grief. Seems like a good idea to me.

So the bottom line is making clear what one's doing, not (necessarily)
being compassionate.

Because unless you are really clued into the situation, a backseat
driver most often is nothing more than a unnecessary distraction.

We would all really appreciate being more clued into the situation! I
can appreciate that Herb only wants to clue us in a limited way, but I
don't really understand why. As long as the answers are cryptic and
along the lines of "Astromart moves in mysterious ways," even if those
ways are really beneficial to most involved, people's curiosities are
going to be piqued. That's human nature.

Funny. Do you understand the reason behind this requirement? I think
if you did understand, then you would be less critical and more reasonable.

Well, I think here we just have a failure to communicate, or something.
Because I have had the reasoning behind this requirement explained to me
a few times, and it has never made any sense. And believe me, I've tried
pretty hard to understand it.

Probably that has something to do with Herb's cryptic responses at times.

Here's a clue. Herb is of the opinion that those who are in the business
of amateur astromony ought to be helping him with some of the expenses of
operating Astromart.

That's just it. Why is Michael with his book more in the "business" than
I am with my software? Is it that I'm not making more than pocket money
with mine? (I have no idea how lucrative Michael's book is, but it
apparently isn't making him rich.)

I'm not trying to whine, honestly--there are just some things about
Astromart that I don't understand, and it does seem like a bit of work to
get some of the answers.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt

Jon Isaacs wrote:
Here's a clue. Herb is of the opinion that those who are in the business of
amateur astromony ought to be helping him with some of the expenses of
operating Astromart.

You hit the nail on the head there. But it's hard to explain why
Michael fits that profile... One could argue that Michael is giving
back to the hobby by writing such great books for so little
compensation. I say we all support Michael. Herb could let him use
Astromart for free, for instance...

It is not about getting punished, it is simply about growing up and carrying a
bit of the load.

Grow up eh? Always an ironic response in a personal attack...

Either Astromart is a business or it is a charity. It can't be both.
If it is a business then it's being run poorly. As a business the
advertisers (Herb calls them "supporters") should be treated as business
partners rather than potential criminals. His competition has stolen
advertisers away from him by simply allowing them to try their service
out for free. They assume that once the advertiser sees the results
they will gladly pay in the future. What do they have to lose? I once
received an email solicitation to advertise on Astromart from Herb. Get
this: it sent me to a web page that complained that he had just raised
his rates because he wasn't getting enough support! Gee Herb, thanks
for nothing! And when he found out that I had taken his competitors up
on their free trial Herb closed my personal account. Thanks again,
Herb. A good businessman would have matched the offer of the competitor
rather and would have welcomed my use of Astromart in the hope I would
one day consider advertising.

If Astromart is a charity then Herb's approach is even more misguided.
You don't run a charity by banning everyone from fair use simply because
you decide they might be a potential donor! Catching flies with honey
and all that... Imagine for a moment that Herb was running a Hospital
with a free clinic. The Hospital accepts donations for a big research
project to cure some terrible disease. Following the Astromart approach
Herb would ban all potential donors and their relatives from being
treated unless they support his project! He'd bar them from visiting
friends and relatives! And he'd ban anyone from the hospital who dared
give to another charity.

Frankly I think Astromart is a business. The problem is that Herb just
doesn't realize it. The day he treats me as a business partner rather
than an outcast not doing my share to support *his* charity--then we'll
talk.

Clear skies,
Greg

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools Software for the Observer:
http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html

Skyhound Observing Pages:
http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html