Mystery scopes on eBay

Subject: Astromart; was: Mystery scopes on eBay
From: "Herb York"
Date: 11/25/03 6:33 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: m



World?
You think so small Doug E

Herb
AstroMart
************************
Ya Doug , Herb wants to rule Mars as well!!!

Chas P.

"Doogie Hoosier" wrote in message
...

Herb sees you as competition in his bid for World Domination. Do not
risk making the ruminants angry--when their leader takes over the
world they will be in control. Best to become an Herbivore while you
still can.

Herb would not let me have an Astromart account because I had a lowly
"hotmail" address (I no longer do), even if I only wanted to
participate in the forums.

I always suspected Herb to be a man of impeccable distinction, now I'm
sure!:-)

Al


I now suspect that if he knew that my wife
operates a stock photo agency, selling mostly her and my work, I'd
have another strike against me (oops, I shouldn't have let that one
out...). I wonder if Herb would allow you, a respected voice in
things astronomical, lend your thoughts to the Astromart forums, or if
he'd expect you to pay $25 for the privilege of helping others with
free advice.

But I'm not complaining. Herb is right. I like to eat grass. Moo.

Doug Hosey (There are some cows in a field near my home. I watch for
spies.)

Doogie,

Do you remember being a kid and playing baseball in the schoolyard? I
remember meeting all the kids on Saturday morning and playing baseball the
rest of the day. In my group, Pete almost always brought the bat and ball,
and Pete always got first choice in picking those he wanted on his team.
One day, a new kid asked Pete, "why do you always get the first choice?" Of
course, Pete responded, "it's my bat and ball!" Well, Doogie, it's the same
kind of thing here with Herb. You can **** and moan to your hearts content,
but in the end, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. The bat and ball
belong to Herb.

Al


"Doogie Hoosier" wrote in message
m...
"Herb York" wrote in message
ws.com...
But all "AMATEURS" do use Astromart for free if they wish
People with a web site like this one
http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/astromenu.html are placed before
the
"AstroMart peer group" to determine if they are dealers or OEMs.
In your case it was 79% of the group saying you are.
I believed them.

Thanks
Herb
AstroMart

Everybody knows that the Truth can be determined by popular vote.

It seems to me that you could look up the definition of "dealer" and
decide for yourself if Michael fits the description, then, being Herb,
you could override that 79% majority's opinion. That's why we have
judges--lay people often don't know enough for their opinions to guide
the law.

Of course, as any successful despot knows, majority opinion can make a
very good scapegoat. If Michael should feel that he's been
discriminated against and think about suing you, you've got that 79%
to blame for a poor decision.

Herb York wrote:
I have come to realize over the last three plus years of owning AstroMart
that I will never make 100% of the people happy.

But that has nothing to do with unfairly singling out one person who has
nothing to gain by buying and selling on Astromart simply because you
impose an arbitrary blanket rule (which is unclear to *everyone* but
yourself).

Why not let the guy use Astromart? What do you have to lose? You
wrongly assumed that he sells astronomy stuff -- why not just admit it
and move on? If he abuses the service (show of hands -- how many people
think Michael is going to do that?) then boot him off.

Just a thought.

Clear skies,
Greg

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools Software for the Observer:
http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html

Skyhound Observing Pages:
http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html

"Zane" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:10:03 -0500, "Michael A. Covington"
wrote:

(snip)

That's why being classified as a dealer surprised me.

Reckon the fairly long list of "recommended" companies on your web
site that are competitors of Mr. York makes a difference?

One of them *was* Mr. York.

Why not let the guy use Astromart? What do you have to lose? You
wrongly assumed that he sells astronomy stuff -- why not just admit it
and move on? If he abuses the service (show of hands -- how many people
think Michael is going to do that?) then boot him off.

Just a thought.

Clear skies,
Greg



Some thoughts:

1. Humor:

Its pretty amazing that Herb is able to retain of a sense of humor when
dealing with Astromart.

2. Backseat Driving:

Each one of us has some ideas on how Astromart could be changed so that it
would work better from our view point. At times I have run into the rules and
had changes of my own I would like to impliment.

However, Astromart is operated from Herbs viewpoint and his experiences.

Each of us need to be careful about not "Backseat Driving."

3. Given the size and magnitude of Astromart, Herb is dealing with situations
after situation like Michael's every day. He has implimented a system to deal
with these things, I think he puts a significant amount of effort into this and
the result has been a positive contribution to the amateur community.

4. I hope each of us views Astromart from the perspective of how it affects
the amateur community as a whole rather than how it affects us personally.

I support Astromart because it offers not only a unique marketplace but also
some forums where ideas are exchanged.

Jon

You guys are really funny. I just love this thread. Hey, face it.
E-bay is a great place to buy and sell. I have bought and sold scopes
on E-bay. I've gotten very good prices for the stuff I have sold, and
got marginal deals for the stuff I have bought.

E-bay is by far the preferred place for anyone to sell their product.
It is a great place to buy as long as you are reasonably careful. As
far as I can tell, if I'm not getting a guarantee, I don't buy a scope
used until I can look through it - regardless of where I am buying it
from.

Gil Violette

Jon Isaacs wrote:
However, Astromart is operated from Herbs viewpoint and his experiences.

And he does so with little compassion for those who he suspects of might
abuse his service, even when the evidence vindicates that person. We
have every right to criticize him for that. Michael should be allowed
to use Astromart because he is not likely to abuse the service. Period.
End of case. Unless Herb can show otherwise he's simply not being
fair. Book authors are amateur astronomers too, you know. They need to
pick up an eyepiece from time to time just like everyone else.

How would Herb feel if he were to be barred from a major star party
because he is a retailer? Should we not accept his word that he would
attend such a star party as just another amateur astronomer if he gave
it to us? Shouldn't we at least give him the chance to come and show
that he's just there to observe like everyone else? I would certainly
hope so. And if he were barred from attending even as a non-retailer
I'd hope people would speak up about it.

I wonder, is that the real problem? That Herb can't imagine himself
turning off being a retailer and participating as just another amateur...?

Each of us need to be careful about not "Backseat Driving."

Why? People tell me what I'm doing wrong all the time. I ignore the
those with misconceptions and try to listen to those who have something
constructive to say. The arbitrary rule that anyone with even a remote
interest in an astronomical product be barred from Astromart unless they
pony up is just plain wrong. It assumes we are all crooks! It's
insulting! We are charged as guilty even before we are given the chance
to prove otherwise. The rule should simply bar any type of advertising
on the free service. No URL's to products. Proven offenders should be
dealt with. But to punish us *all* simply because one or two *might*
abuse the service--that's just wrong headed.

Clear skies,
Greg

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools Software for the Observer:
http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html

Skyhound Observing Pages:
http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html

I have never attended a Star Party as a vendor but have paid as one all but
once at TMSP and have donated tens of thousands of dollars of door prizes
for many that we haven't even attended.
What did your company do for the amateur community today Greg?
ATWB/AstroMart has nothing to be ashamed of as it pertains to donating back
to the community - how about your glass house?
Herb
ATWB
AstroMart


"Greg Crinklaw" wrote in message
...
Jon Isaacs wrote:
However, Astromart is operated from Herbs viewpoint and his experiences.

And he does so with little compassion for those who he suspects of might
abuse his service, even when the evidence vindicates that person. We
have every right to criticize him for that. Michael should be allowed
to use Astromart because he is not likely to abuse the service. Period.
End of case. Unless Herb can show otherwise he's simply not being
fair. Book authors are amateur astronomers too, you know. They need to
pick up an eyepiece from time to time just like everyone else.

How would Herb feel if he were to be barred from a major star party
because he is a retailer? Should we not accept his word that he would
attend such a star party as just another amateur astronomer if he gave
it to us? Shouldn't we at least give him the chance to come and show
that he's just there to observe like everyone else? I would certainly
hope so. And if he were barred from attending even as a non-retailer
I'd hope people would speak up about it.

I wonder, is that the real problem? That Herb can't imagine himself
turning off being a retailer and participating as just another amateur...?

Each of us need to be careful about not "Backseat Driving."

Why? People tell me what I'm doing wrong all the time. I ignore the
those with misconceptions and try to listen to those who have something
constructive to say. The arbitrary rule that anyone with even a remote
interest in an astronomical product be barred from Astromart unless they
pony up is just plain wrong. It assumes we are all crooks! It's
insulting! We are charged as guilty even before we are given the chance
to prove otherwise. The rule should simply bar any type of advertising
on the free service. No URL's to products. Proven offenders should be
dealt with. But to punish us *all* simply because one or two *might*
abuse the service--that's just wrong headed.

Clear skies,
Greg

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools Software for the Observer:
http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html

Skyhound Observing Pages:
http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html

And he does so with little compassion for those who he suspects of might
abuse his service, even when the evidence vindicates that person. We
have every right to criticize him for that. Michael should be allowed
to use Astromart because he is not likely to abuse the service.
Period.

Making judgements about conmpassion is a risky game.

I am not seeing you giving Herb much compassion.




Each of us need to be careful about not "Backseat Driving."

Why?

Because unless you are really clued into the situation, a backseat driver most
often is nothing more than a unnecessary distraction.


The arbitrary rule that anyone with even a remote
interest in an astronomical product be barred from Astromart unless they
pony up is just plain wrong.

Funny. Do you understand the reason behind this requirement? I think if you
did understand, then you would be less critical and more reasonable.


But to punish us *all* simply because one or two *might*
abuse the service--that's just wrong headed.

Clear skies,
Greg

Here's a clue. Herb is of the opinion that those who are in the business of
amateur astromony ought to be helping him with some of the expenses of
operating Astromart.

It is not about getting punished, it is simply about growing up and carrying a
bit of the load.

Jon