Orion's "apo"

Jon Isaacs wrote:

So, Jon - WHY BRING THIS UP NOW? What's the relevance, with SV, Orion,
or otherwise?

I will go through this one more time.

The reason I brought it up was that Guy Fuchs innocently used the SV website as
an example of a website that was straightforward in comparison to the Orion
website. I did not agree with his comparison and chose the best example I knew
and took the time to go back via www.archive.org and document it.


Jon

I missed the Guy Fuchs post. Had I read it I wouldn't have questioned you at all.

Don

"Jon Isaacs" wrote in message
...
So, Jon - WHY BRING THIS UP NOW? What's the relevance, with SV, Orion,
or otherwise?

I will go through this one more time.

The reason I brought it up was that Guy Fuchs innocently used the SV
website as
an example of a website that was straightforward in comparison to the
Orion
website. I did not agree with his comparison and chose the best example I
knew
and took the time to go back via www.archive.org and document it.

As Mr. Cover2Cover wrote:

"That' is definitely fair enough Jon. No doubt there are issues with
the way
Vic wrote his promotional material about the scopes on the web site."

As an example of a Straightforward-NO BS website, I think the "DRS Data
and
Imaging Systems Ltd" website qualifies. A maker of high speed digital
cameras
they essentially have no peers. The Imacon 200 can take 16 frames in a
total
time of 150 nano seconds.

http://www.hadland1.demon.co.uk/index.html


They provide remarkable service and remarkable products which are truly
amazing
in their capabilities. It would be difficult to exaggerate when
describing
these products. The galleries are most impressive. The flight follower
AVI
files are interesting as it tracks a projectile in flight.

http://www.hadland1.demon.co.uk/gall...s/round14.html

Jon Isaacs

Hi Jon,

Those are awesome movies!

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon?
Try the Lunar Observing Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

Hey Al:

Sorry we couldn't do Mt. Rainier. I was really looking forward to
that.

I apologize for the analogy, but I honestly don't know of any other
way to describe the reactions I've observed over the past 2 1/2 years.
Actually, I thought I was being rather polite! It's
dumbfounding....but then I'm rather simple and don't understand all
the complexities of human nature.

It just perplexes me as to why a tiny subset of the astronomical
community would hold such a vindetta against a small startup refractor
company in the first place. The reactions you've noted are nothing
compared to the campaign of mis-information and good ol' FUD
exhibited.

I would say that your suggestion that I'm "attacking" is somewhat
hypocritical. But nonetheless, it is duly noted and as noted above, I
apologize!

David

(Al M) wrote in message . com...
Hi David,
You argue as if you're a child with your inuendos. As usual, you have
taken up the SV standard by attacking others ...... now its TeleVue.
The TV102 will certainly accept 250X.

Take note .... the SV scopes are very good. See I said it! The way the
SVers speak of others, suck!


Al M


snip

Vic has made some mistakes in his promotional campaign for his company. Okie
dokie. They get corrected as things move along.

"Mistakes" like his expanded become Enron's.
-Rich

Good analogy Rich.... I never knew you were such a clever guy.

I thought that Vic was able to hide the fact that he put thousands of people out of
work and cleaned out billions in retired folks retirement funds.

And to think, all of that occured because he used a longer draw tube and vignetted a
scope and because he never disclosed on his web site that he filtered another
telescope. That zonal control thing is being looked into by Congress.

Amazing how these things can expand into these disasters... who woulda known.

- Don

"Cover2Cover" wrote in message
...

Vic has made some mistakes in his promotional campaign for his company.
Okie
dokie. They get corrected as things move along.

"Mistakes" like his expanded become Enron's.
-Rich

Good analogy Rich.... I never knew you were such a clever guy.

I thought that Vic was able to hide the fact that he put thousands of
people out of
work and cleaned out billions in retired folks retirement funds.

And to think, all of that occured because he used a longer draw tube and
vignetted a
scope and because he never disclosed on his web site that he filtered
another
telescope. That zonal control thing is being looked into by Congress.

Amazing how these things can expand into these disasters... who woulda
known.

- Don

So Don, if you mislead people, it is only wrong if it involve billions of
dollars?

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon?
Try the Lunar Observing Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

wrote in message
...
On 15 Aug 2003 11:51:49 -0700, (Doogie Hoosier)
wrote:

(Chris1011) wrote in message
...

...In
our case, we use CNC machines to cut metal and glass...

Twenty-five years ago I was working for a tool-design company that
refused to update the shop with new NC and CNC machines. All the NC
stuff we had was a single aging Bridgeport NC mill (with a
finger-reader!), and one guy that knew how to program it (me).
Instead, the owner figured that the skill of his tool-makers was more
than enough to compensate for completely manual machine tools. He
paid well enough, but didn't want to invest in new equipment. I found
another job soon after that pronouncement, and he went out of business
within a few years.


It's not just the companies, it's the workers too. How many of these
people are looking seriously at their industries and taking courses to
perhaps shift occupations? They just sit at home, hoping it will all
go away.
-Rich

I lived in Idaho for about five years and watched every year as kids dropped
out of high school to get a job at the local mill. Their explanation was
always the same: "If I drop out now, I'll have seniority on the guys who
wait until they graduate." Of course, half the mills in that area had
already been shut down. They were being shut down, one by one, starting with
the oldest. The mill in that town shut down about five years ago. It's sad,
but now the high school dropouts merely have seniority in unemployment.

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon?
Try the Lunar Observing Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

Chuck Taylor wrote:

"Cover2Cover" wrote in message
...

Vic has made some mistakes in his promotional campaign for his company.
Okie
dokie. They get corrected as things move along.

"Mistakes" like his expanded become Enron's.
-Rich

Good analogy Rich.... I never knew you were such a clever guy.

I thought that Vic was able to hide the fact that he put thousands of
people out of
work and cleaned out billions in retired folks retirement funds.

And to think, all of that occured because he used a longer draw tube and
vignetted a
scope and because he never disclosed on his web site that he filtered
another
telescope. That zonal control thing is being looked into by Congress.

Amazing how these things can expand into these disasters... who woulda
known.

- Don

So Don, if you mislead people, it is only wrong if it involve billions of
dollars?

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon?
Try the Lunar Observing Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

So Chuck, you didn't answer my three questions. Are you misleading people?

BTW - Mislead? That would involve intent. I was a newbie when I first looked at
SV... Vic was always up front with me... I never felt mislead. Got a couple of
great scopes to use to boot.

Misleading would be Vic saying that his scopes are the best and can hold 450X
in a 3 inch scope... sending you crap and then not answering your emails and
phones calls from that time forward.

LOL

You're a funny guy Chuck...

- Don

Chuck Taylor wrote:

"Cover2Cover" wrote in message
...

Vic has made some mistakes in his promotional campaign for his company.
Okie
dokie. They get corrected as things move along.

"Mistakes" like his expanded become Enron's.
-Rich

Good analogy Rich.... I never knew you were such a clever guy.

I thought that Vic was able to hide the fact that he put thousands of
people out of
work and cleaned out billions in retired folks retirement funds.

And to think, all of that occured because he used a longer draw tube and
vignetted a
scope and because he never disclosed on his web site that he filtered
another
telescope. That zonal control thing is being looked into by Congress.

Amazing how these things can expand into these disasters... who woulda
known.

- Don

So Don, if you mislead people, it is only wrong if it involve billions of
dollars?

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon?
Try the Lunar Observing Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

This is how silly it gets with the SV bashers.

One guy makes an analogy that SV can be compared to Enron.

Another guy responds in defense of his analogy.

What more can I say but...

Have a nice life Chuck, I'm outta here.

- Don

Subject: Orion's "apo"
From:
Date: 8/15/03 11:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Orion's "apo"
From:
Date: 8/15/03 11:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:



The Criterion SCTs should never have existed.
-Rich
*********************
I had a 6" that did ok, but that was years ago, before i got picky about
optics!!!

Chas P.