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Problem in design of $100 billion dollar moon rocket
Harry Hope wrote:
The space agency has been working on a plan to return to the Moon, at a cost of more than $100 billion, since 2005. http://www.hindu.com/2008/01/21/stor...2155291500.htm Jan 21, 2008 WASHINGTON: NASA is wrestling with a potentially dangerous problem in a spacecraft, this time in a Moon rocket that has not even been built yet. Engineers are concerned that the rocket meant to replace the space shuttle and send astronauts on their way to the Moon could shake violently during the first few minutes of flight, possibly destroying the entire vehicle. “They know it’s a real problem,” said Carnegie Mellon University engineering professor Paul Fischbeck, who has consulted on risk issues with NASA in the past. “This thing is going to shake apart the whole structure, and they’ve got to solve it.” If not corrected, the shaking would arise from the powerful first stage of the Ares I rocket, which will lift the Orion crew capsule into orbit. NASA officials hope to have a plan for fixing the design as early as March, and they do not expect it to delay the goal of returning astronauts to the Moon by 2020. The entire ESAS (Exploration Systems Architecture Studies) was a fraud, pushed through by a bunch of prima donna astronauts, one of which, Scott (Doc the Whore) Horowitz worked for ATK - Alliant Techsystems, who ended up with a no bid contract for the solid rocket booster Ares first stage. Other players were Marsha (Psychotic Bitch) Ivins and Doug (Pony Tailed Religious Freak) Stanley, a former Orbital Science engineer (OSC of the $30,000 per kilogram to orbit solid rocket booster launcher fame). http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/horowitz.html http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/...n_stanley.html http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/ivins.html We all know who Michael (Chief Engineer of the Universe) Griffin is. http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/griffin_bio.html And of course, we have George W. (to the cosmos, and beyond!) Bush. Notice Mr. Griffin also was heavily involved with Orbital Sciences. Now, the Stick - Ares I. Anybody with any physics training at all could easily see that the Ares I would fail, on basic physics principles, and that the entire VSE (Vision for Space Exploration) was George W. Bush's vanity space program. His daddy tried it (the SEI - Space Exploration Initiative) and it failed miserably, fortunately before they wasted billions of dollars and years of our valuable time pursuing it. However, at the time, nobody besides myself stood up to challenge this. If you will recall, for two full years I ran an advanced Wordpress AJAX blog (BLOB) with the sole purpose of challenging this idiotic program : http://cosmic.lifeform.org (offline) I pounded on these people for two full years to no avail. However, during this period, my working group (The Tsiolkovsky Group) also ran our own launch vehicle architecture study, using a new release of the Orbiter Space Flight Simulator as our physical simulation test bed. We occasionally posted our results on the blog and on sci.space.policy so that everyone could keep up with our work and follow it if they chose. Then, in November of 2007, another round of COTS (Commercial Orbital Transportation System) Solicitation was proposed, and we wrapped up our study, and wrote a position paper, which we submitted as a proposal. http://webpages.charter.net/tsiolkov...oposal/IPO.doc During this time I also poked and prodded Keith Cowing with everything I had, in order to attempt to get him to act on the information we knew he had, but also to no avail. My understanding is that finally as these issues became more widely known, AP filed a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request, and Keith Cowing, reading the writing on the walls after two full years, finally filed a PAO (Public Affairs Office) request specifically citing the vibration issues, which should have been obvious from the start. Now finally, this is in the news. Two years too late. So, almost three full years and countless billions of dollars have been wasted on what is inarguably a dead end in space. Considering that America is wasting billions a week on a dead end war, and billions a day servicing an incredible debt, clearly this is really just small change. Just add it to the ever growing list of Bush administration scandals. If we didn't absolutely need a viable space program to combat an ever increasing environmental disaster I would never have bothered with this. I'm getting back into condensed matter physics, the war is lost here. If you want to follow this story, you can get the entire scoop here : http://rocketsandsuch.blogspot.com This guy is the real hero. |
#2
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Problem in design of $100 billion dollar moon rocket
"kT" wrote in message ... Harry Hope wrote: The space agency has been working on a plan to return to the Moon, at a cost of more than $100 billion, since 2005. http://www.hindu.com/2008/01/21/stor...2155291500.htm Jan 21, 2008 WASHINGTON: NASA is wrestling with a potentially dangerous problem in a spacecraft, this time in a Moon rocket that has not even been built yet. Engineers are concerned that the rocket meant to replace the space shuttle and send astronauts on their way to the Moon could shake violently during the first few minutes of flight, possibly destroying the entire vehicle. “They know it’s a real problem,” said Carnegie Mellon University engineering professor Paul Fischbeck, who has consulted on risk issues with NASA in the past. “This thing is going to shake apart the whole structure, and they’ve got to solve it.” If not corrected, the shaking would arise from the powerful first stage of the Ares I rocket, which will lift the Orion crew capsule into orbit. NASA officials hope to have a plan for fixing the design as early as March, and they do not expect it to delay the goal of returning astronauts to the Moon by 2020. The entire ESAS (Exploration Systems Architecture Studies) was a fraud, pushed through by a bunch of prima donna astronauts, one of which, Scott (Doc the Whore) Horowitz worked for ATK - Alliant Techsystems, who ended up with a no bid contract for the solid rocket booster Ares first stage. Other players were Marsha (Psychotic Bitch) Ivins and Doug (Pony Tailed Religious Freak) Stanley, a former Orbital Science engineer (OSC of the $30,000 per kilogram to orbit solid rocket booster launcher fame). http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/horowitz.html http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/...n_stanley.html http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/ivins.html We all know who Michael (Chief Engineer of the Universe) Griffin is. http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/griffin_bio.html And of course, we have George W. (to the cosmos, and beyond!) Bush. Notice Mr. Griffin also was heavily involved with Orbital Sciences. Now, the Stick - Ares I. Anybody with any physics training at all could easily see that the Ares I would fail, on basic physics principles, and that the entire VSE (Vision for Space Exploration) was George W. Bush's vanity space program. His daddy tried it (the SEI - Space Exploration Initiative) and it failed miserably, fortunately before they wasted billions of dollars and years of our valuable time pursuing it. However, at the time, nobody besides myself stood up to challenge this. If you will recall, for two full years I ran an advanced Wordpress AJAX blog (BLOB) with the sole purpose of challenging this idiotic program : http://cosmic.lifeform.org (offline) I pounded on these people for two full years to no avail. However, during this period, my working group (The Tsiolkovsky Group) also ran our own launch vehicle architecture study, using a new release of the Orbiter Space Flight Simulator as our physical simulation test bed. We occasionally posted our results on the blog and on sci.space.policy so that everyone could keep up with our work and follow it if they chose. Then, in November of 2007, another round of COTS (Commercial Orbital Transportation System) Solicitation was proposed, and we wrapped up our study, and wrote a position paper, which we submitted as a proposal. http://webpages.charter.net/tsiolkov...oposal/IPO.doc During this time I also poked and prodded Keith Cowing with everything I had, in order to attempt to get him to act on the information we knew he had, but also to no avail. My understanding is that finally as these issues became more widely known, AP filed a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request, and Keith Cowing, reading the writing on the walls after two full years, finally filed a PAO (Public Affairs Office) request specifically citing the vibration issues, which should have been obvious from the start. Now finally, this is in the news. Two years too late. So, almost three full years and countless billions of dollars have been wasted on what is inarguably a dead end in space. Considering that America is wasting billions a week on a dead end war, and billions a day servicing an incredible debt, clearly this is really just small change. Just add it to the ever growing list of Bush administration scandals. If we didn't absolutely need a viable space program to combat an ever increasing environmental disaster I would never have bothered with this. I'm getting back into condensed matter physics, the war is lost here. If you want to follow this story, you can get the entire scoop here : http://rocketsandsuch.blogspot.com This guy is the real hero. Do consider your balloon full now of hot air; your horn more than adequately tootled. Now can you say *in plain engineering English*, *what the problem is*? ?? Thanks -- Martha Adams [sci.space.policy 2008 Jan 21] |
#3
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Problem in design of $100 billion dollar moon rocket
Martha Adams wrote:
"kT" wrote in message ... Harry Hope wrote: The space agency has been working on a plan to return to the Moon, at a cost of more than $100 billion, since 2005. http://www.hindu.com/2008/01/21/stor...2155291500.htm Jan 21, 2008 WASHINGTON: NASA is wrestling with a potentially dangerous problem in a spacecraft, this time in a Moon rocket that has not even been built yet. Engineers are concerned that the rocket meant to replace the space shuttle and send astronauts on their way to the Moon could shake violently during the first few minutes of flight, possibly destroying the entire vehicle. “They know it’s a real problem,” said Carnegie Mellon University engineering professor Paul Fischbeck, who has consulted on risk issues with NASA in the past. “This thing is going to shake apart the whole structure, and they’ve got to solve it.” If not corrected, the shaking would arise from the powerful first stage of the Ares I rocket, which will lift the Orion crew capsule into orbit. NASA officials hope to have a plan for fixing the design as early as March, and they do not expect it to delay the goal of returning astronauts to the Moon by 2020. The entire ESAS (Exploration Systems Architecture Studies) was a fraud, pushed through by a bunch of prima donna astronauts, one of which, Scott (Doc the Whore) Horowitz worked for ATK - Alliant Techsystems, who ended up with a no bid contract for the solid rocket booster Ares first stage. Other players were Marsha (Psychotic Bitch) Ivins and Doug (Pony Tailed Religious Freak) Stanley, a former Orbital Science engineer (OSC of the $30,000 per kilogram to orbit solid rocket booster launcher fame). http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/horowitz.html http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/...n_stanley.html http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/ivins.html We all know who Michael (Chief Engineer of the Universe) Griffin is. http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/griffin_bio.html And of course, we have George W. (to the cosmos, and beyond!) Bush. Notice Mr. Griffin also was heavily involved with Orbital Sciences. Now, the Stick - Ares I. Anybody with any physics training at all could easily see that the Ares I would fail, on basic physics principles, and that the entire VSE (Vision for Space Exploration) was George W. Bush's vanity space program. His daddy tried it (the SEI - Space Exploration Initiative) and it failed miserably, fortunately before they wasted billions of dollars and years of our valuable time pursuing it. However, at the time, nobody besides myself stood up to challenge this. If you will recall, for two full years I ran an advanced Wordpress AJAX blog (BLOB) with the sole purpose of challenging this idiotic program : http://cosmic.lifeform.org (offline) I pounded on these people for two full years to no avail. However, during this period, my working group (The Tsiolkovsky Group) also ran our own launch vehicle architecture study, using a new release of the Orbiter Space Flight Simulator as our physical simulation test bed. We occasionally posted our results on the blog and on sci.space.policy so that everyone could keep up with our work and follow it if they chose. Then, in November of 2007, another round of COTS (Commercial Orbital Transportation System) Solicitation was proposed, and we wrapped up our study, and wrote a position paper, which we submitted as a proposal. http://webpages.charter.net/tsiolkov...oposal/IPO.doc During this time I also poked and prodded Keith Cowing with everything I had, in order to attempt to get him to act on the information we knew he had, but also to no avail. My understanding is that finally as these issues became more widely known, AP filed a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request, and Keith Cowing, reading the writing on the walls after two full years, finally filed a PAO (Public Affairs Office) request specifically citing the vibration issues, which should have been obvious from the start. Now finally, this is in the news. Two years too late. So, almost three full years and countless billions of dollars have been wasted on what is inarguably a dead end in space. Considering that America is wasting billions a week on a dead end war, and billions a day servicing an incredible debt, clearly this is really just small change. Just add it to the ever growing list of Bush administration scandals. If we didn't absolutely need a viable space program to combat an ever increasing environmental disaster I would never have bothered with this. I'm getting back into condensed matter physics, the war is lost here. If you want to follow this story, you can get the entire scoop here : http://rocketsandsuch.blogspot.com This guy is the real hero. Do consider your balloon full now of hot air; your horn more than adequately tootled. Now can you say *in plain engineering English*, *what the problem is*? ? Well, nothing actually, except tomorrow there is going to be a crash in the US financial markets, and then an outright panic, when Americans finally recognize that the emperor has no clothes on, is stark naked, and everybody in the United States will be standing around in the freezing cold, snow and rain with their pants down. Capiche? The rocket is a minor side issue, I like the Delta IV Medium myself, and I can think of lots of cool things to do with a Delta IV Medium upper stage, so really I'm not too concerned that the Ares I is a failure. However, if the Delta IV Medium is ok, the Delta V Heavy with an SSME on the core stage going single stage to orbit in wet launch configuration, and a pair of NK-33s on the recoverable booster stages is even better. You see, it a liquid verses a solid thing. If ATK is going to build this SRB thing, then somebody has to step up to the plate from the Boeing and Pratt and Whitney / Rocketdyne side of the field and take a swing at it. This is exactly what I will be proposing to the next administration. Meanwhile, you have yet another year of the administration bringing you tomorrow. I do hope that you enjoy your day tomorrow - DON'T PANIC! It's just the end of the United States as you know it, courtesy of George W. Bush, Michael Griffin and Conrad Lautenbacher and friends. It just means being very cold and very hungry for a long while. |
#4
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Problem in design of $100 billion dollar moon rocket
On Jan 21, 7:49 pm, kT wrote:
Martha Adams wrote: "kT" wrote in message ... Harry Hope wrote: The space agency has been working on a plan to return to the Moon, at a cost of more than $100 billion, since 2005. http://www.hindu.com/2008/01/21/stor...2155291500.htm Jan 21, 2008 WASHINGTON: NASA is wrestling with a potentially dangerous problem in a spacecraft, this time in a Moon rocket that has not even been built yet. Engineers are concerned that the rocket meant to replace the space shuttle and send astronauts on their way to the Moon could shake violently during the first few minutes of flight, possibly destroying the entire vehicle. "They know it's a real problem," said Carnegie Mellon University engineering professor Paul Fischbeck, who has consulted on risk issues with NASA in the past. "This thing is going to shake apart the whole structure, and they've got to solve it." If not corrected, the shaking would arise from the powerful first stage of the Ares I rocket, which will lift the Orion crew capsule into orbit. NASA officials hope to have a plan for fixing the design as early as March, and they do not expect it to delay the goal of returning astronauts to the Moon by 2020. The entire ESAS (Exploration Systems Architecture Studies) was a fraud, pushed through by a bunch of prima donna astronauts, one of which, Scott (Doc the Whore) Horowitz worked for ATK - Alliant Techsystems, who ended up with a no bid contract for the solid rocket booster Ares first stage. Other players were Marsha (Psychotic Bitch) Ivins and Doug (Pony Tailed Religious Freak) Stanley, a former Orbital Science engineer (OSC of the $30,000 per kilogram to orbit solid rocket booster launcher fame). http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/horowitz.html http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/...n_stanley.html http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/ivins.html We all know who Michael (Chief Engineer of the Universe) Griffin is. http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/griffin_bio.html And of course, we have George W. (to the cosmos, and beyond!) Bush. Notice Mr. Griffin also was heavily involved with Orbital Sciences. Now, the Stick - Ares I. Anybody with any physics training at all could easily see that the Ares I would fail, on basic physics principles, and that the entire VSE (Vision for Space Exploration) was George W. Bush's vanity space program. His daddy tried it (the SEI - Space Exploration Initiative) and it failed miserably, fortunately before they wasted billions of dollars and years of our valuable time pursuing it. However, at the time, nobody besides myself stood up to challenge this. If you will recall, for two full years I ran an advanced Wordpress AJAX blog (BLOB) with the sole purpose of challenging this idiotic program : http://cosmic.lifeform.org(offline) I pounded on these people for two full years to no avail. However, during this period, my working group (The Tsiolkovsky Group) also ran our own launch vehicle architecture study, using a new release of the Orbiter Space Flight Simulator as our physical simulation test bed. We occasionally posted our results on the blog and on sci.space.policy so that everyone could keep up with our work and follow it if they chose. Then, in November of 2007, another round of COTS (Commercial Orbital Transportation System) Solicitation was proposed, and we wrapped up our study, and wrote a position paper, which we submitted as a proposal. http://webpages.charter.net/tsiolkov...oposal/IPO.doc During this time I also poked and prodded Keith Cowing with everything I had, in order to attempt to get him to act on the information we knew he had, but also to no avail. My understanding is that finally as these issues became more widely known, AP filed a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request, and Keith Cowing, reading the writing on the walls after two full years, finally filed a PAO (Public Affairs Office) request specifically citing the vibration issues, which should have been obvious from the start. Now finally, this is in the news. Two years too late. So, almost three full years and countless billions of dollars have been wasted on what is inarguably a dead end in space. Considering that America is wasting billions a week on a dead end war, and billions a day servicing an incredible debt, clearly this is really just small change. Just add it to the ever growing list of Bush administration scandals. If we didn't absolutely need a viable space program to combat an ever increasing environmental disaster I would never have bothered with this. I'm getting back into condensed matter physics, the war is lost here. If you want to follow this story, you can get the entire scoop here : http://rocketsandsuch.blogspot.com This guy is the real hero. Do consider your balloon full now of hot air; your horn more than adequately tootled. Now can you say *in plain engineering English*, *what the problem is*? ? Well, nothing actually, except tomorrow there is going to be a crash in the US financial markets, and then an outright panic, when Americans finally recognize that the emperor has no clothes on, is stark naked, and everybody in the United States will be standing around in the freezing cold, snow and rain with their pants down. Capiche? The rocket is a minor side issue, I like the Delta IV Medium myself, and I can think of lots of cool things to do with a Delta IV Medium upper stage, so really I'm not too concerned that the Ares I is a failure. However, if the Delta IV Medium is ok, the Delta V Heavy with an SSME on the core stage going single stage to orbit in wet launch configuration, and a pair of NK-33s on the recoverable booster stages is even better. You see, it a liquid verses a solid thing. If ATK is going to build this SRB thing, then somebody has to step up to the plate from the Boeing and Pratt and Whitney / Rocketdyne side of the field and take a swing at it. This is exactly what I will be proposing to the next administration. Meanwhile, you have yet another year of the administration bringing you tomorrow. I do hope that you enjoy your day tomorrow - DON'T PANIC! It's just the end of the United States as you know it, courtesy of George W. Bush, Michael Griffin and Conrad Lautenbacher and friends. It just means being very cold and very hungry for a long while.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Your being blow-off by Keith Cowing is NO SURPRISE to me. Him and I have had run-ins in the past and absolutely forbids me to even email him. He will delete my email without even reading and reply back that "I told you NEVER to contact me". He's like James Oberg...a NASA APOLOGISTS who will NOT believe ANYTHING in the Universe is NEW and EXCITING unless it comes from the great and almighty NASA. period. They brush off Mars anomalous research from PHDs and even from people within NASA itself who PROVE that NASA is lying and fudging images of Mars released to the public. Georgie Jr's great "Space Dream" will end up putting our efforts back decades. What we REALLY need...we'll likely never get: http://commonsensecentral.blogspot.c...e-are-you.html http://commonsensecentral.blogspot.c...-starship.html Bob... http://commonsensecentral.net/ |
#5
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Problem in design of $100 billion dollar moon rocket
On Jan 21, 4:49 pm, kT wrote:
Martha Adams wrote: "kT" wrote in message ... Harry Hope wrote: The space agency has been working on a plan to return to the Moon, at a cost of more than $100 billion, since 2005. http://www.hindu.com/2008/01/21/stor...2155291500.htm Jan 21, 2008 WASHINGTON: NASA is wrestling with a potentially dangerous problem in a spacecraft, this time in a Moon rocket that has not even been built yet. Engineers are concerned that the rocket meant to replace the space shuttle and send astronauts on their way to the Moon could shake violently during the first few minutes of flight, possibly destroying the entire vehicle. "They know it's a real problem," said Carnegie Mellon University engineering professor Paul Fischbeck, who has consulted on risk issues with NASA in the past. "This thing is going to shake apart the whole structure, and they've got to solve it." If not corrected, the shaking would arise from the powerful first stage of the Ares I rocket, which will lift the Orion crew capsule into orbit. NASA officials hope to have a plan for fixing the design as early as March, and they do not expect it to delay the goal of returning astronauts to the Moon by 2020. The entire ESAS (Exploration Systems Architecture Studies) was a fraud, pushed through by a bunch of prima donna astronauts, one of which, Scott (Doc the Whore) Horowitz worked for ATK - Alliant Techsystems, who ended up with a no bid contract for the solid rocket booster Ares first stage. Other players were Marsha (Psychotic Bitch) Ivins and Doug (Pony Tailed Religious Freak) Stanley, a former Orbital Science engineer (OSC of the $30,000 per kilogram to orbit solid rocket booster launcher fame). http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/horowitz.html http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/...n_stanley.html http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/ivins.html We all know who Michael (Chief Engineer of the Universe) Griffin is. http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/griffin_bio.html And of course, we have George W. (to the cosmos, and beyond!) Bush. Notice Mr. Griffin also was heavily involved with Orbital Sciences. Now, the Stick - Ares I. Anybody with any physics training at all could easily see that the Ares I would fail, on basic physics principles, and that the entire VSE (Vision for Space Exploration) was George W. Bush's vanity space program. His daddy tried it (the SEI - Space Exploration Initiative) and it failed miserably, fortunately before they wasted billions of dollars and years of our valuable time pursuing it. However, at the time, nobody besides myself stood up to challenge this. If you will recall, for two full years I ran an advanced Wordpress AJAX blog (BLOB) with the sole purpose of challenging this idiotic program : http://cosmic.lifeform.org(offline) I pounded on these people for two full years to no avail. However, during this period, my working group (The Tsiolkovsky Group) also ran our own launch vehicle architecture study, using a new release of the Orbiter Space Flight Simulator as our physical simulation test bed. We occasionally posted our results on the blog and on sci.space.policy so that everyone could keep up with our work and follow it if they chose. Then, in November of 2007, another round of COTS (Commercial Orbital Transportation System) Solicitation was proposed, and we wrapped up our study, and wrote a position paper, which we submitted as a proposal. http://webpages.charter.net/tsiolkov...oposal/IPO.doc During this time I also poked and prodded Keith Cowing with everything I had, in order to attempt to get him to act on the information we knew he had, but also to no avail. My understanding is that finally as these issues became more widely known, AP filed a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request, and Keith Cowing, reading the writing on the walls after two full years, finally filed a PAO (Public Affairs Office) request specifically citing the vibration issues, which should have been obvious from the start. Now finally, this is in the news. Two years too late. So, almost three full years and countless billions of dollars have been wasted on what is inarguably a dead end in space. Considering that America is wasting billions a week on a dead end war, and billions a day servicing an incredible debt, clearly this is really just small change. Just add it to the ever growing list of Bush administration scandals. If we didn't absolutely need a viable space program to combat an ever increasing environmental disaster I would never have bothered with this. I'm getting back into condensed matter physics, the war is lost here. If you want to follow this story, you can get the entire scoop here : http://rocketsandsuch.blogspot.com This guy is the real hero. Do consider your balloon full now of hot air; your horn more than adequately tootled. Now can you say *in plain engineering English*, *what the problem is*? ? Well, nothing actually, except tomorrow there is going to be a crash in the US financial markets, and then an outright panic, when Americans finally recognize that the emperor has no clothes on, is stark naked, and everybody in the United States will be standing around in the freezing cold, snow and rain with their pants down. Capiche? The rocket is a minor side issue, I like the Delta IV Medium myself, and I can think of lots of cool things to do with a Delta IV Medium upper stage, so really I'm not too concerned that the Ares I is a failure. However, if the Delta IV Medium is ok, the Delta V Heavy with an SSME on the core stage going single stage to orbit in wet launch configuration, and a pair of NK-33s on the recoverable booster stages is even better. You see, it a liquid verses a solid thing. If ATK is going to build this SRB thing, then somebody has to step up to the plate from the Boeing and Pratt and Whitney / Rocketdyne side of the field and take a swing at it. This is exactly what I will be proposing to the next administration. Meanwhile, you have yet another year of the administration bringing you tomorrow. I do hope that you enjoy your day tomorrow - DON'T PANIC! It's just the end of the United States as you know it, courtesy of George W. Bush, Michael Griffin and Conrad Lautenbacher and friends. It just means being very cold and very hungry for a long while. Perhaps Muslims with oil will come to our pathetic salvation. It is bad financial news, but the feds can drop 2 full points if need be, although a one point drop in the cost of our federal bank loans should do the trick unless the other shoe drops. - Brad Guth |
#6
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Problem in design of $100 billion dollar moon rocket
On Jan 21, 6:12 pm, rhw007 wrote:
On Jan 21, 7:49 pm, kT wrote: Martha Adams wrote: "kT" wrote in message ... Harry Hope wrote: The space agency has been working on a plan to return to the Moon, at a cost of more than $100 billion, since 2005. http://www.hindu.com/2008/01/21/stor...2155291500.htm Jan 21, 2008 WASHINGTON: NASA is wrestling with a potentially dangerous problem in a spacecraft, this time in a Moon rocket that has not even been built yet. Engineers are concerned that the rocket meant to replace the space shuttle and send astronauts on their way to the Moon could shake violently during the first few minutes of flight, possibly destroying the entire vehicle. "They know it's a real problem," said Carnegie Mellon University engineering professor Paul Fischbeck, who has consulted on risk issues with NASA in the past. "This thing is going to shake apart the whole structure, and they've got to solve it." If not corrected, the shaking would arise from the powerful first stage of the Ares I rocket, which will lift the Orion crew capsule into orbit. NASA officials hope to have a plan for fixing the design as early as March, and they do not expect it to delay the goal of returning astronauts to the Moon by 2020. The entire ESAS (Exploration Systems Architecture Studies) was a fraud, pushed through by a bunch of prima donna astronauts, one of which, Scott (Doc the Whore) Horowitz worked for ATK - Alliant Techsystems, who ended up with a no bid contract for the solid rocket booster Ares first stage. Other players were Marsha (Psychotic Bitch) Ivins and Doug (Pony Tailed Religious Freak) Stanley, a former Orbital Science engineer (OSC of the $30,000 per kilogram to orbit solid rocket booster launcher fame). http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/horowitz.html http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/...n_stanley.html http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/ivins.html We all know who Michael (Chief Engineer of the Universe) Griffin is. http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/griffin_bio.html And of course, we have George W. (to the cosmos, and beyond!) Bush. Notice Mr. Griffin also was heavily involved with Orbital Sciences. Now, the Stick - Ares I. Anybody with any physics training at all could easily see that the Ares I would fail, on basic physics principles, and that the entire VSE (Vision for Space Exploration) was George W. Bush's vanity space program. His daddy tried it (the SEI - Space Exploration Initiative) and it failed miserably, fortunately before they wasted billions of dollars and years of our valuable time pursuing it. However, at the time, nobody besides myself stood up to challenge this. If you will recall, for two full years I ran an advanced Wordpress AJAX blog (BLOB) with the sole purpose of challenging this idiotic program : http://cosmic.lifeform.org(offline) I pounded on these people for two full years to no avail. However, during this period, my working group (The Tsiolkovsky Group) also ran our own launch vehicle architecture study, using a new release of the Orbiter Space Flight Simulator as our physical simulation test bed. We occasionally posted our results on the blog and on sci.space.policy so that everyone could keep up with our work and follow it if they chose. Then, in November of 2007, another round of COTS (Commercial Orbital Transportation System) Solicitation was proposed, and we wrapped up our study, and wrote a position paper, which we submitted as a proposal. http://webpages.charter.net/tsiolkov...oposal/IPO.doc During this time I also poked and prodded Keith Cowing with everything I had, in order to attempt to get him to act on the information we knew he had, but also to no avail. My understanding is that finally as these issues became more widely known, AP filed a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request, and Keith Cowing, reading the writing on the walls after two full years, finally filed a PAO (Public Affairs Office) request specifically citing the vibration issues, which should have been obvious from the start. Now finally, this is in the news. Two years too late. So, almost three full years and countless billions of dollars have been wasted on what is inarguably a dead end in space. Considering that America is wasting billions a week on a dead end war, and billions a day servicing an incredible debt, clearly this is really just small change. Just add it to the ever growing list of Bush administration scandals. If we didn't absolutely need a viable space program to combat an ever increasing environmental disaster I would never have bothered with this. I'm getting back into condensed matter physics, the war is lost here. If you want to follow this story, you can get the entire scoop here : http://rocketsandsuch.blogspot.com This guy is the real hero. Do consider your balloon full now of hot air; your horn more than adequately tootled. Now can you say *in plain engineering English*, *what the problem is*? ? Well, nothing actually, except tomorrow there is going to be a crash in the US financial markets, and then an outright panic, when Americans finally recognize that the emperor has no clothes on, is stark naked, and everybody in the United States will be standing around in the freezing cold, snow and rain with their pants down. Capiche? The rocket is a minor side issue, I like the Delta IV Medium myself, and I can think of lots of cool things to do with a Delta IV Medium upper stage, so really I'm not too concerned that the Ares I is a failure. However, if the Delta IV Medium is ok, the Delta V Heavy with an SSME on the core stage going single stage to orbit in wet launch configuration, and a pair of NK-33s on the recoverable booster stages is even better. You see, it a liquid verses a solid thing. If ATK is going to build this SRB thing, then somebody has to step up to the plate from the Boeing and Pratt and Whitney / Rocketdyne side of the field and take a swing at it. This is exactly what I will be proposing to the next administration. Meanwhile, you have yet another year of the administration bringing you tomorrow. I do hope that you enjoy your day tomorrow - DON'T PANIC! It's just the end of the United States as you know it, courtesy of George W. Bush, Michael Griffin and Conrad Lautenbacher and friends. It just means being very cold and very hungry for a long while.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Your being blow-off by Keith Cowing is NO SURPRISE to me. Him and I have had run-ins in the past and absolutely forbids me to even email him. He will delete my email without even reading and reply back that "I told you NEVER to contact me". He's like James Oberg...a NASA APOLOGISTS who will NOT believe ANYTHING in the Universe is NEW and EXCITING unless it comes from the great and almighty NASA. period. They brush off Mars anomalous research from PHDs and even from people within NASA itself who PROVE that NASA is lying and fudging images of Mars released to the public. Georgie Jr's great "Space Dream" will end up putting our efforts back decades. What we REALLY need...we'll likely never get: http://commonsensecentral.blogspot.c...-where-are-you.... http://commonsensecentral.blogspot.c...-to-hijack-sta... Bob...http://commonsensecentral.net/ It's a NASA Yiddish thing, including all things Third Reich that would put another big smile on a rabbi. - Brad Guth |
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Problem in design of $100 billion dollar moon rocket
On Jan 21, 9:52*pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Jan 21, 6:12 pm, rhw007 wrote: On Jan 21, 7:49 pm, kT wrote: Martha Adams wrote: "kT" wrote in message ... Harry Hope wrote: The space agency has been working on a plan to return to the Moon, at a cost of more than $100 billion, since 2005. http://www.hindu.com/2008/01/21/stor...2155291500.htm Jan 21, 2008 WASHINGTON: NASA is wrestling with a potentially dangerous problem in a spacecraft, this time in a Moon rocket that has not even been built yet. Engineers are concerned that the rocket meant to replace the space shuttle and send astronauts on their way to the Moon could shake violently during the first few minutes of flight, possibly destroying the entire vehicle. "They know it's a real problem," said Carnegie Mellon University engineering professor Paul Fischbeck, who has consulted on risk issues with NASA in the past. "This thing is going to shake apart the whole structure, and they've got to solve it." If not corrected, the shaking would arise from the powerful first stage of the Ares I rocket, which will lift the Orion crew capsule into orbit. NASA officials hope to have a plan for fixing the design as early as March, and they do not expect it to delay the goal of returning astronauts to the Moon by 2020. The entire ESAS (Exploration Systems Architecture Studies) was a fraud, pushed through by a bunch of prima donna astronauts, one of which, Scott (Doc the Whore) Horowitz worked for ATK - Alliant Techsystems, who ended up with a no bid contract for the solid rocket booster Ares first stage. Other players were Marsha (Psychotic Bitch) Ivins and Doug (Pony Tailed Religious Freak) Stanley, a former Orbital Science engineer (OSC of the $30,000 per kilogram to orbit solid rocket booster launcher fame). http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/horowitz.html http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/...n_stanley.html http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/ivins.html We all know who Michael (Chief Engineer of the Universe) Griffin is.. http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/griffin_bio.html And of course, we have George W. (to the cosmos, and beyond!) Bush. Notice Mr. Griffin also was heavily involved with Orbital Sciences. Now, the Stick - Ares I. Anybody with any physics training at all could easily see that the Ares I would fail, on basic physics principles, and that the entire VSE (Vision for Space Exploration) was George W. Bush's vanity space program. His daddy tried it (the SEI - Space Exploration Initiative) and it failed miserably, fortunately before they wasted billions of dollars and years of our valuable time pursuing it. However, at the time, nobody besides myself stood up to challenge this. If you will recall, for two full years I ran an advanced Wordpress AJAX blog (BLOB) with the sole purpose of challenging this idiotic program : http://cosmic.lifeform.org(offline) I pounded on these people for two full years to no avail. However, during this period, my working group (The Tsiolkovsky Group) also ran our own launch vehicle architecture study, using a new release of the Orbiter Space Flight Simulator as our physical simulation test bed. We occasionally posted our results on the blog and on sci.space.policy so that everyone could keep up with our work and follow it if they chose. Then, in November of 2007, another round of COTS (Commercial Orbital Transportation System) Solicitation was proposed, and we wrapped up our study, and wrote a position paper, which we submitted as a proposal. http://webpages.charter.net/tsiolkov...oposal/IPO.doc During this time I also poked and prodded Keith Cowing with everything I had, in order to attempt to get him to act on the information we knew he had, but also to no avail. My understanding is that finally as these issues became more widely known, AP filed a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request, and Keith Cowing, reading the writing on the walls after two full years, finally filed a PAO (Public Affairs Office) request specifically citing the vibration issues, which should have been obvious from the start. Now finally, this is in the news. Two years too late. So, almost three full years and countless billions of dollars have been wasted on what is inarguably a dead end in space. Considering that America is wasting billions a week on a dead end war, and billions a day servicing an incredible debt, clearly this is really just small change. Just add it to the ever growing list of Bush administration scandals. If we didn't absolutely need a viable space program to combat an ever increasing environmental disaster I would never have bothered with this. I'm getting back into condensed matter physics, the war is lost here. If you want to follow this story, you can get the entire scoop here : http://rocketsandsuch.blogspot.com This guy is the real hero. Do consider your balloon full now of hot air; your horn more than adequately tootled. *Now can you say *in plain engineering English*, *what the problem is*? *? Well, nothing actually, except tomorrow there is going to be a crash in the US financial markets, and then an outright panic, when Americans finally recognize that the emperor has no clothes on, is stark naked, and everybody in the United States will be standing around in the freezing cold, snow and rain with their pants down. Capiche? The rocket is a minor side issue, I like the Delta IV Medium myself, and I can think of lots of cool things to do with a Delta IV Medium upper stage, so really I'm not too concerned that the Ares I is a failure. However, if the Delta IV Medium is ok, the Delta V Heavy with an SSME on the core stage going single stage to orbit in wet launch configuration, and a pair of NK-33s on the recoverable booster stages is even better. You see, it a liquid verses a solid thing. If ATK is going to build this SRB thing, then somebody has to step up to the plate from the Boeing and Pratt and Whitney / Rocketdyne side of the field and take a swing at it. |
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Problem in design of $100 billion dollar moon rocket
Uh? Didn't they have an entirely workable design about 40 years ago?
Or, wouldn't it meet the new fuel consumption standards? |
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Problem in design of $100 billion dollar moon rocket
On Jan 22, 6:46 am, "Docky Wocky" wrote:
Uh? Didn't they have an entirely workable design about 40 years ago? Or, wouldn't it meet the new fuel consumption standards? The Saturn V wasn't quite sufficient back then, although with incorporating a great deal of low mass composites and of somewhat better engines they should be capable getting their inert GLOW down to a dull roar of perhaps 15% instead of the nearly 30%, and of otherwise going with that undocumented Third Reich as-built version should do the trick. Instead, perhaps they simply need to spend an extra $100 billion for their environmentally polluting stick. I mean, what's another $100 billion here and there of our hard earned loot, as spent among friends? - Brad Guth |
#10
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Problem in design of $100 billion dollar moon rocket
On Jan 21, 7:09 pm, " wrote:
On Jan 21, 9:52 pm, BradGuth wrote: On Jan 21, 6:12 pm, rhw007 wrote: On Jan 21, 7:49 pm, kT wrote: Martha Adams wrote: "kT" wrote in message ... Harry Hope wrote: The space agency has been working on a plan to return to the Moon, at a cost of more than $100 billion, since 2005. http://www.hindu.com/2008/01/21/stor...2155291500.htm Jan 21, 2008 WASHINGTON: NASA is wrestling with a potentially dangerous problem in a spacecraft, this time in a Moon rocket that has not even been built yet. Engineers are concerned that the rocket meant to replace the space shuttle and send astronauts on their way to the Moon could shake violently during the first few minutes of flight, possibly destroying the entire vehicle. "They know it's a real problem," said Carnegie Mellon University engineering professor Paul Fischbeck, who has consulted on risk issues with NASA in the past. "This thing is going to shake apart the whole structure, and they've got to solve it." If not corrected, the shaking would arise from the powerful first stage of the Ares I rocket, which will lift the Orion crew capsule into orbit. NASA officials hope to have a plan for fixing the design as early as March, and they do not expect it to delay the goal of returning astronauts to the Moon by 2020. The entire ESAS (Exploration Systems Architecture Studies) was a fraud, pushed through by a bunch of prima donna astronauts, one of which, Scott (Doc the Whore) Horowitz worked for ATK - Alliant Techsystems, who ended up with a no bid contract for the solid rocket booster Ares first stage. Other players were Marsha (Psychotic Bitch) Ivins and Doug (Pony Tailed Religious Freak) Stanley, a former Orbital Science engineer (OSC of the $30,000 per kilogram to orbit solid rocket booster launcher fame). http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/horowitz.html http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/...n_stanley.html http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/ivins.html We all know who Michael (Chief Engineer of the Universe) Griffin is. http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/griffin_bio.html And of course, we have George W. (to the cosmos, and beyond!) Bush. Notice Mr. Griffin also was heavily involved with Orbital Sciences. Now, the Stick - Ares I. Anybody with any physics training at all could easily see that the Ares I would fail, on basic physics principles, and that the entire VSE (Vision for Space Exploration) was George W. Bush's vanity space program. His daddy tried it (the SEI - Space Exploration Initiative) and it failed miserably, fortunately before they wasted billions of dollars and years of our valuable time pursuing it. However, at the time, nobody besides myself stood up to challenge this. If you will recall, for two full years I ran an advanced Wordpress AJAX blog (BLOB) with the sole purpose of challenging this idiotic program : http://cosmic.lifeform.org(offline) I pounded on these people for two full years to no avail. However, during this period, my working group (The Tsiolkovsky Group) also ran our own launch vehicle architecture study, using a new release of the Orbiter Space Flight Simulator as our physical simulation test bed. We occasionally posted our results on the blog and on sci.space.policy so that everyone could keep up with our work and follow it if they chose. Then, in November of 2007, another round of COTS (Commercial Orbital Transportation System) Solicitation was proposed, and we wrapped up our study, and wrote a position paper, which we submitted as a proposal. http://webpages.charter.net/tsiolkov...oposal/IPO.doc During this time I also poked and prodded Keith Cowing with everything I had, in order to attempt to get him to act on the information we knew he had, but also to no avail. My understanding is that finally as these issues became more widely known, AP filed a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request, and Keith Cowing, reading the writing on the walls after two full years, finally filed a PAO (Public Affairs Office) request specifically citing the vibration issues, which should have been obvious from the start. Now finally, this is in the news. Two years too late. So, almost three full years and countless billions of dollars have been wasted on what is inarguably a dead end in space. Considering that America is wasting billions a week on a dead end war, and billions a day servicing an incredible debt, clearly this is really just small change. Just add it to the ever growing list of Bush administration scandals. If we didn't absolutely need a viable space program to combat an ever increasing environmental disaster I would never have bothered with this. I'm getting back into condensed matter physics, the war is lost here. If you want to follow this story, you can get the entire scoop here : http://rocketsandsuch.blogspot.com This guy is the real hero. Do consider your balloon full now of hot air; your horn more than adequately tootled. Now can you say *in plain engineering English*, *what the problem is*? ? Well, nothing actually, except tomorrow there is going to be a crash in the US financial markets, and then an outright panic, when Americans finally recognize that the emperor has no clothes on, is stark naked, and everybody in the United States will be standing around in the freezing cold, snow and rain with their pants down. Capiche? The rocket is a minor side issue, I like the Delta IV Medium myself, and I can think of lots of cool things to do with a Delta IV Medium upper stage, so really I'm not too concerned that the Ares I is a failure. However, if the Delta IV Medium is ok, the Delta V Heavy with an SSME on the core stage going single stage to orbit in wet launch configuration, and a pair of NK-33s on the recoverable booster stages is even better. You see, it a liquid verses a solid thing. If ATK is going to build this SRB thing, then somebody has to step up to the plate from the Boeing and Pratt and Whitney / Rocketdyne side of the field and take a swing at it. This is exactly what I will be proposing to the next administration. Meanwhile, you have yet another year of the administration bringing you tomorrow. I do hope that you enjoy your day tomorrow - DON'T PANIC! It's just the end of the United States as you know it, courtesy of George W. Bush, Michael Griffin and Conrad Lautenbacher and friends. It just means being very cold and very hungry for a long while.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Your being blow-off by Keith Cowing is NO SURPRISE to me. Him and I have had run-ins in the past and absolutely forbids me to even email him. He will delete my email without even reading and reply back that "I told you NEVER to contact me". He's like James Oberg...a NASA APOLOGISTS who will NOT believe ANYTHING in the Universe is NEW and EXCITING unless it comes from the great and almighty NASA. period. They brush off Mars anomalous research from PHDs and even from people within NASA itself who PROVE that NASA is lying and fudging images of Mars released to the public. Georgie Jr's great "Space Dream" will end up putting our efforts back decades. What we REALLY need...we'll likely never get: http://commonsensecentral.blogspot.c...-where-are-you.... http://commonsensecentral.blogspot.c...-to-hijack-sta... Bob...http://commonsensecentral.net/ It's a NASA Yiddish thing, including all things Third Reich that would put another big smile on a rabbi. - Brad Guth- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Brad, can't dispute that except to say that it was far more likey to be a "Gray Hair" rather than a Yiddish thing (although many of the Gray Hair dudes were Jewish.) As with most aerospace operations, the 'Olf Farts' were laid off back around 1995 as a expense cutting measure because they were the most expensive to keep on the payroll. Dhuhh! Now it's 2008, and no-one on the payroll has the experience to build a moon capable craft, and we have to go through the learning curve again. Didn't NASA bother to save the design notes? Harry C. Everything of our NASA/Apollo fiasco that was Third Reich and otherwise more Semitic than not, got lost or was intentionally destroyed so that the whole truth and nothing but the truth simply couldn't be so easily uncovered. BTW, the cost of keeping those fly-by-rocket smart Jews employed was not the primary reason for our NASA getting rid of them. It had to do extensively with their Third Reich status, of which needed to remain as forever hidden as OBL and those Muslim WMD. - Brad Guth |
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