On the Nature of Exploration

Your Humble Servant once again opines in the pages of USA Today, this
time using the Cassini mission to discuss the nature of exploration
and to settle once and for all the tiresome humans vrs robots
argument.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...ttington_x.htm

"Mark Whittington" wrote in message m...
Your Humble Servant once again opines in the pages of USA Today, this
time using the Cassini mission to discuss the nature of exploration
and to settle once and for all the tiresome humans vrs robots
argument.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...ttington_x.htm

Gee. I'm glad that one is finally settled. ;-)

"Perplexed in Peoria" wrote in message ...
"Mark Whittington" wrote in message m...
Your Humble Servant once again opines in the pages of USA Today, this
time using the Cassini mission to discuss the nature of exploration
and to settle once and for all the tiresome humans vrs robots
argument.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...ttington_x.htm

Gee. I'm glad that one is finally settled. ;-)

You would be surprised at the number of people who think it is not.

"Mark Whittington" wrote in message
m...
Your Humble Servant once again opines in the pages of USA Today, this
time using the Cassini mission to discuss the nature of exploration
and to settle once and for all the tiresome humans vrs robots
argument.

Ho ho ho. If you actually think you've settled "once and for all" that
argument, your ego is bigger than Dubya's.

One little note about your hyperbole:

To say that Rutan demonstrated cheap spaceflight is an immense
overstatement. While it's true he did reach the internationally recognized
altitude for "space", a marvelous achievement, he did so by zoom-climbing an
airplane. That's far removed from actual spaceflight.

-Kim-

"Mark Whittington" wrote in message
om...
"Perplexed in Peoria" wrote in message
...
"Mark Whittington" wrote in message
m...
Your Humble Servant once again opines in the pages of USA Today, this
time using the Cassini mission to discuss the nature of exploration
and to settle once and for all the tiresome humans vrs robots
argument.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...ttington_x.htm

Gee. I'm glad that one is finally settled. ;-)


You would be surprised at the number of people who think it is not.


I'd say you're correct. Most people fail to understand this simple
argument.

Meridiani is the ideal example of this. Everyone seems to refuse
to believe their own eyes, instead waiting for some detailed
microscopic or chemical 'proof' gathered by a machine
for display on some chart.

If you're correct, that human reasoning is far more capable, then
the images ...alone... of Meridiani should provide far more
useful and comprehensive answers. As those images essentially
place a human eye on the surface of Mars.

Meridiani is clearly shaped by bacteria, a form of life that taxes
the human eye, yet the effects are easy to see. But only if
we stop obsessing over what things 'are', and instead
focus on how things interact with or depend on each other.

The layered rocks, the spheres and the soil. The question
is not 'what are they exactly'. It is ...'what process or
relationship can explain them all'?

The answer is obvious ...at a glance.

Only one process can account for order that spans
all scales...it is life. Exquisite order is seen at Meridiani
whether looking from orbit, from eye level or at
the microscopic. So much order in fact, one can't
escape it if they tried.

Meridiani is the textbook example of life, as
it's /completely/ niche filled by the /simplest/ form
of life possible. It is in fact the textbook example of
'The Garden of Eden'.

Meridiani is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen!
It is the most beautiful thing in the universe!

If we can't ...see...this, we can't see anything at all.


Jonathan



"THIS is my letter to the world,
That never wrote to me,
The simple news that Nature told,
With tender majesty.

Her message is committed
To hands I cannot see;
For love of her, sweet countrymen,
Judge tenderly of me!"


By E Dickinson




"The aim of science is not things themselves, as the dogmatists in their
simplicity imagine, but the relations among things; outside these relations
there is no reality knowable."

Henri Poincaré, Science and Hypothesis, 1905




SIGNIFICANT POINTS IN THE STUDY OF COMPLEX SYSTEMS
http://www.necsi.org/projects/yaneer/points.html

Self-Organizing Systems (SOS) FAQ
http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm

An Introduction to Complex Systems
Torsten Reil, Department of Zoology, University of Oxford
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~quee0818/comp...omplexity.html

Center for the Study of Complex Systems
http://www.pscs.umich.edu/complexity.html

STUART A. KAUFFMAN
http://www.santafe.edu/sfi/People/kauffman/




s

"Jonathan" wrote in message ...
I'd say you're correct. Most people fail to understand this simple
argument.

Which simple argument? That for the price of one manned mission to one
place on Mars you can send unmanned missions to hundreds or thousands
of places on Mars?

Humans may do a better job of exploring one place, but it's still just
one place. Anything more than a few kilometers away is still part of
the great unknown, and for all the talk about sending manned rovers
along, I can't see NASA letting astronauts get further away from the
lander than they could walk back in a space suit. The last thing
they'd want is for the crew to die because their rover broke down or
got stuck 50km from the lander.

Mark

In article ,
"Jonathan" wrote:

Only one process can account for order that spans
all scales...it is life.

What utter nonsense.

I suppose you believe that Saturn's rings are alive (or created by
life), too?

Meridiani is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen!
It is the most beautiful thing in the universe!

If we can't ...see...this, we can't see anything at all.

Your aesthetic notions differ substantially from mine (I find many
things -- such as my wife for example -- far more beatiful than a dead,
dusty bunch of rocks). However, aesthetic judgements are irrelevant to
conclusions about biology (or pretty much any other science).

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Joseph J. Strout Check out the Mac Web Directory: |
| http://www.macwebdir.com |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'

"Joe Strout" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Jonathan" wrote:

Only one process can account for order that spans
all scales...it is life.

What utter nonsense.


Why? Can you defend that statement? When the
head of the Nasa science team states ...

"This is a profound discovery. It has profound implications for astrobiology,"
said Edward Weiler, NASA chief of space science
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...P&type=science


.....is he uttering nonsense too?




I suppose you believe that Saturn's rings are alive (or created by
life), too?

Meridiani is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen!
It is the most beautiful thing in the universe!

If we can't ...see...this, we can't see anything at all.

Your aesthetic notions differ substantially from mine (I find many
things -- such as my wife for example -- far more beatiful than a dead,
dusty bunch of rocks).


What rocks at Meridiani would you be referring to? Please
just name ...one rock.... that has been identified at
Meridiani after six months of searching. .

Nasa merely refers to them as generic sedimentary rocks.
Please, before commenting, know what you're talking
about. There are no rocks at Meridiani, there are only
stromatolites like these...

The Stromatolites of Stella Maris, Bahamas
http://www.theflyingcircus.com/stella_maris.html

Endurance Crater
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...9P1987R0M1.JPG

Nasa recently claimed that the geologists finally have something to do
after five idle months not that they're at Endurance.
Well guess what? The geologists still have nothing to
do since the crater wall is simply more of the same
layered 'rocks' covering all of Meridiani. Only difference
is they're at an angle due to the subsiding caused by
the hydrothermal vent called Endurance crater




However, aesthetic judgements are irrelevant to
conclusions about biology (or pretty much any other science).


Meridiani is a template for the very first living ecosystem.
The first life is the ...source...of all beauty. Whether it be on our
planet or anywhere else in the universe.


Jonathan

s




,------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Joseph J. Strout Check out the Mac Web Directory: |
| http://www.macwebdir.com |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'

"Kim Keller" wrote in message
. ..

"Mark Whittington" wrote in message
m...
Your Humble Servant once again opines in the pages of USA Today, this
time using the Cassini mission to discuss the nature of exploration
and to settle once and for all the tiresome humans vrs robots
argument.

Ho ho ho. If you actually think you've settled "once and for all" that
argument, your ego is bigger than Dubya's.

One little note about your hyperbole:

To say that Rutan demonstrated cheap spaceflight is an immense
overstatement. While it's true he did reach the internationally recognized
altitude for "space", a marvelous achievement, he did so by zoom-climbing an
airplane. That's far removed from actual spaceflight.


That's a ridiculous statement. It like saying the Wright brothers accomplished
little since they didn't build a DC-3.




-Kim-

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...
That's a ridiculous statement. It like saying the Wright brothers
accomplished
little since they didn't build a DC-3.

No, it's a simple matter of paring away all the PR bull**** and exposing it
for what it truly is. SS1 is no more a spaceship than X-15 was. Admittedly a
marvelous achievement for private industry in general and Burt Rutan & Co.
in particular, but not a spaceflight.

Obviously, you and I have different thoughts on what constitutes a space
*flight*. To me, a space flight is a flight which spends some significant
amount of time in the space environment before returning to Earth - say, a
minimum of one or two orbits. Anything less is "just" a sounding rocket - a
commendable achievement, but not earth-shattering in significance.

-Kim-