Sun's Hot Surface: Influence of Jupiter on our Sun~~~

"granite stone" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Laury,
| Actually you got me thinking. Is the movement of Jupiter
| the same energy as the heat from the Sun?

Well, your idea got me thinking and I thought I'd work out how much heat
could be generated by the tidal effects you suggest.

I'm not sure how best to answer your question, though. The reason is
that my previous answer provided that answer, but your knowledge of
physics is not enough to allow you see the implications.

I'm sure you know that if you brake a car, the disks get hot because the
energy of the car's motion is being turned to heat energy.

One of the fundamentals foundations of physics is that energy is neither
created nor destroyed. If the Sun is radiating energy, something is
losing energy. Your idea is that Jupiter's tidal forces are heating the
sun. As a consequence, Jupiter and/or the Sun must be losing energy. I
looked at Jupiter's kinetic energy (energy of motion) and worked out how
long it would last if it was being converted into heating the Sun. As
with a car braking, so Jupiter would be slowed down.

What the figures showed was that, if all the energy stored in Jupiter's
motion were turned to heat in the Sun, it would allow the Sun to shine
at it's current level for another 30 years. A that time, Jupiter would
have been slowed to a stop, and the sun would stop shining.

I simplified it a bit because I was interested in seeing whether the
energy would last for days, years or millennia. I didn't have a clue
when I started. The answer was 30 years, but that's a very very rough
figure. But you can be fairly sure that it's between 3 and 300 years.

Incidentally, I used the centimetre-gram-second system for my
calculations which rather old-fashioned. In that system, energy is
measured in ergs, an erg being about as much energy as a flea jump.

I hope that helps.
--
.-. Laury
(o o)
{\0/}

It takes no energy to move the planets. Because they are moving, they
possess kinetic energy, which can be transferred to other objects
(indeed, many space probes increase their own energy by stealing energy
from planets during flybys). When a planet gives up some of its orbital
energy, it necessarily drops into a different orbit.
It is not difficult to calculate what would happen to Jupiter's orbit
if
it were powering the Sun.


interesting........but i still think none of the planets have kinetic
energy and are exerting forces on the sun.

"granite stone" wrote in message
ups.com...
It takes no energy to move the planets. Because they are moving, they
possess kinetic energy, which can be transferred to other objects
(indeed, many space probes increase their own energy by stealing energy
from planets during flybys). When a planet gives up some of its orbital
energy, it necessarily drops into a different orbit.
It is not difficult to calculate what would happen to Jupiter's orbit
if
it were powering the Sun.


interesting........but i still think none of the planets have kinetic
energy and are exerting forces on the sun.

--
You keep repeating this mantra Jon, but it is still not true and cannot be proven. You might seek
out the late Prof Feynman's thoughts and views on such a situation.

John Carruthers
http://mysite.freeserve.com/jc_atm/

I say this and ask where does the energy of the Moon and the tides come
from? No one has answered this. It would not be kinetic energy.

On 25 Feb 2006 06:14:46 -0800, "granite stone"
wrote:

I say this and ask where does the energy of the Moon and the tides come
from? No one has answered this. It would not be kinetic energy.

And why not? All the planets and their satellites have kinetic energy,
both from their orbital motion and their rotational motion. The energy
that originally set these bodies in motion was from the gravitational
collapse of the nebula that produced the Solar System.

All of the bodies in the Solar System affect each other gravitationally,
transferring energy between themselves. In some cases this is
measurable. The Moon and Earth produce tidal forces on one another, and
this has resulted in a tidally locked Moon, which has a rotation period
and revolution period that are the same (on average). These tides are
transferring energy from the Earth to the Moon- we see this as a slowing
down of the Earth's rotation, and an increase in the size of the Moon's
orbit. Both effects are confirmed by actual measurement.

Something similar is going on between the Sun and Jupiter. I seem to
recall that a tiny tidal bulge may have been measured on the Sun,
although I don't recall the reference. In any case, the tidal forces
between the Sun and Jupiter are extremely small because of their large
separation. Any energy transfer between the two is extremely tiny
compared with the energy output of the Sun.

By my calculation, Jupiter's total KE is equal to the total energy
output of the Sun for 13 years. Not very impressive in the grand scheme
of a solar system that is nearly 5 billion years old.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message
...
| By my calculation, Jupiter's total KE is equal to the total energy
| output of the Sun for 13 years. Not very impressive in the grand
scheme
| of a solar system that is nearly 5 billion years old.

Aha! My order of magnitude figure was 30 years including energy of
rotation of the Sun, with the Sun contributing 1/6th. Thanks.

--
Laury

In message , Chris L
Peterson writes
On 25 Feb 2006 06:14:46 -0800, "granite stone"
wrote:

I say this and ask where does the energy of the Moon and the tides come
from? No one has answered this. It would not be kinetic energy.


By my calculation, Jupiter's total KE is equal to the total energy
output of the Sun for 13 years. Not very impressive in the grand scheme
of a solar system that is nearly 5 billion years old.

Interesting :-) So it takes the total output of the sun for years to
affect Jupiter.
But don't forget that we already know what this little troll's response
will be when it gets bored.
Sci.astro.amateur trimmed.

granite stone wrote:
I have re-written the article. Hope you understand it.

Sun's Hot Surface: Influence of Jupiter on our Sun

By: Jon Riley B.A., Toronto, Canada,

all pictures at;

www.kfcircuits.com/Sun.pdf

Hello: I have not studied your texts in depth. However, let me point
out there appeared some articles in the 60's or 70's (if I recall
rightly) in peer-reviewed journals about the topic.

Where did you got your idea? It would be a good idea if you will cite
your references.

Schneewittchen

Good morning......Wow. Someone instead of telling me I am a troll is
asking where I copied this from. Still an insult but I have moved out
of the gutter to the sidewalk.

You will not believe this but I thought of the idea that magma and the
hot surface of the sun are from the same force, elongation. (see my
article for elongation) And too, from high planet rotation. Last
summer on my sailboat I started to write this article. I first thought
of it when I was asked "where does magma comes from" on a term paper at
Lakehead University. I was studying Geography and had a course
Astronomy under my belt. During my research, just done at google, I
looked at the planets and moons that had high rotation and compared
this to planets and moons that had a magma surface. During my google
search I saw that the sun rotated at 25 days and it too, might be from
the same forces, elongation and high rotation. Earth and Io rotate at
higher speeds, 1 day, but the sun, since it is so big, might have a hot
surface from the result of high rotation speed and elongation (bulge).

In the fall, when I just had 2 pages written, I went to NASA websites
and read articles about Mars and any new articles on magma. I tried
emailing authors about my new idea but just got a few emails back that
"magma remains a mystery". And that I was wrong. I had a feeling that
my article was not read. But, I did get one email from a scientist at
NASA which has motivated me being here. THis is the place to be for
new ideas but the ridiculing is so much!

Jon Riley

granite stone" wrote in message
oups.com... Good morning......Wow. Someone
instead of telling me I am a troll is
You will not believe this but I thought of the idea that magma and the
hot surface of the sun are from the same force, elongation. (see my
article for elongation)

You should publish Jon, if this is as hot as you hope the journals will be fighting for it.

--
John Carruthers
http://mysite.freeserve.com/jc_atm/