The first human mars mission?

In article ,
McLean1382 wrote:
Actually, the Earth to LEO transportation is a surprisingly small fraction of
the estimated cost for NASA's Mars Reference Mission.

Which tells you that something's wrong with that mission design. Most of
that money is going to engineering development of the hardware... which
almost certainly could be substantially eased by allowing it to be twice
as heavy, even though it would cost twice as much to launch.

The budget of a well-designed Mars expedition *would* be dominated by
launch costs. Engineering is expensive; you want to back off on the
custom engineering until any further simplification of engineering drives
the mass (and hence the launch cost) up a *lot*.
--
MOST launched 1015 EDT 30 June, separated 1046, | Henry Spencer
first ground-station pass 1651, all nominal! |

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:30:13 GMT, Dick Morris
wrote:



Christopher wrote:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:14:47 GMT, (Henry Spencer)
wrote:

In article ,
Christopher wrote:
...Has there
been any preliminary designs on the lander craft, or how it's going to
get to Mars yet...

Mars mission studies are a dime a dozen. The NASA Mars Reference
Mission is one of the most detailed studies, though the Mars Direct
concept is probably the closest to what will eventually happen. Links:

http://www.nw.net/mars/marsdirect.html
http://cmex-www.arc.nasa.gov/MarsNew...ion_Table.html

Both now book marked. Thanks.

*Lots* of designs. Lots of paper and viewgraphs. None of which have any
likely relation to anything that might happen.

NASA has *no plans* for a manned Mars expedition. None. It's completely
beyond their planning horizon. So there are no "preliminary designs":
that would imply a commitment, with specific plans to turn those
preliminary designs into definitive designs. There is no such commitment.

What NASA has, is design studies. A large pile of them; some of the ones
on the bottom of the pile are from the early 1960s. They might, or might
not, influence any real design that might someday be done.

or has the total work done on a Mars mission been
restricted to the work done by the Mars Society...

The Mars Society's work has been at the same level: design studies.
(Yes, they have built and experimented with mockups of some of the studied
designs. NASA has been known to do that too.)

Thanks for that-and the other posters-looks like it'll be 2050 at
least before we go, and I'll probably be dead by then.

There are no technological show-stoppers, so we could start a program at
any time. The only thing that is stopping us is the estimated costs.
Published studies (AFAIK) universally assume the use of expendable
HLLV's for Earth-to-orbit transportation which drives the cost out of
reach.

Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

Christopher wrote:
As the reply posts to an earlier post stated there has been no metal
bent for a Mars mission, or even the crew short listed. Has there
been any preliminary designs on the lander craft, or how it's going to
get to Mars yet, or has the total work done on a Mars mission been
restricted to the work done by the Mars Society, with NASA
contributing nothing as yet except for some pretty animated movies,
and pretty pictures of martian astronouts on Mars?


Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

There was metal bent for a "Mars or Bust" pin, but they made us stop
wearing it a few years back. Probably closest we'll ever come...

stmx3 wrote:

Christopher wrote:
As the reply posts to an earlier post stated there has been no metal
bent for a Mars mission, or even the crew short listed. Has there
been any preliminary designs on the lander craft, or how it's going to
get to Mars yet, or has the total work done on a Mars mission been
restricted to the work done by the Mars Society, with NASA
contributing nothing as yet except for some pretty animated movies,
and pretty pictures of martian astronouts on Mars?


Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

There was metal bent for a "Mars or Bust" pin, but they made us stop
wearing it a few years back.

Probably an uncomfortable reminder of all the Mars plans that have gone
"bust".

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:49:12 GMT, Dick Morris
wrote:



stmx3 wrote:

Christopher wrote:
As the reply posts to an earlier post stated there has been no metal
bent for a Mars mission, or even the crew short listed. Has there
been any preliminary designs on the lander craft, or how it's going to
get to Mars yet, or has the total work done on a Mars mission been
restricted to the work done by the Mars Society, with NASA
contributing nothing as yet except for some pretty animated movies,
and pretty pictures of martian astronouts on Mars?


Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

There was metal bent for a "Mars or Bust" pin, but they made us stop
wearing it a few years back.

Probably an uncomfortable reminder of all the Mars plans that have gone
"bust".

As a tangent to my original post, what year do *you* think we'll go?



Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

Christopher wrote:

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:49:12 GMT, Dick Morris
wrote:



stmx3 wrote:

Christopher wrote:
As the reply posts to an earlier post stated there has been no metal
bent for a Mars mission, or even the crew short listed. Has there
been any preliminary designs on the lander craft, or how it's going to
get to Mars yet, or has the total work done on a Mars mission been
restricted to the work done by the Mars Society, with NASA
contributing nothing as yet except for some pretty animated movies,
and pretty pictures of martian astronouts on Mars?


Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

There was metal bent for a "Mars or Bust" pin, but they made us stop
wearing it a few years back.

Probably an uncomfortable reminder of all the Mars plans that have gone
"bust".

As a tangent to my original post, what year do *you* think we'll go?

We COULD get there by 2015 if we started now, but, if I had to bet real
money, I'd say 2035.

Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:17:19 GMT, Dick Morris
wrote:



Christopher wrote:

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:49:12 GMT, Dick Morris
wrote:



stmx3 wrote:

Christopher wrote:
As the reply posts to an earlier post stated there has been no metal
bent for a Mars mission, or even the crew short listed. Has there
been any preliminary designs on the lander craft, or how it's going to
get to Mars yet, or has the total work done on a Mars mission been
restricted to the work done by the Mars Society, with NASA
contributing nothing as yet except for some pretty animated movies,
and pretty pictures of martian astronouts on Mars?


Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

There was metal bent for a "Mars or Bust" pin, but they made us stop
wearing it a few years back.

Probably an uncomfortable reminder of all the Mars plans that have gone
"bust".

As a tangent to my original post, what year do *you* think we'll go?

We COULD get there by 2015 if we started now, but, if I had to bet real
money, I'd say 2035.

Hmm I'd be 79 by then, and I might just live long enough to see humans
walk on Mars, if that date is go for launch so to speak.


Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill