|If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.|
||Thread Tools||Display Modes|
Galaxies without dark matter halos?
Subject: Galaxies without dark matter halos?
In article ,
Dag Oestvang wrote:
The attractiveness of the unified approach to spectral shifts is
that this approach clearly shows how spectral shifts are related
to the geometry of space-time.
In particular, spectral shifts due to curved space-time geometry
should never be thought of as ordinary Doppler shifts in flat space-time.
That is, it is not meaningful to approximate curved space-time with
flat space-time and at the same time keeping spectral shifts due
to curved space-time; such a scheme would be inconsistent.
This is precisely the position that I'm disagreeing with. Thank you
for stating it so lucidly.
I claim that it the following procedure is a perfectly meaningful,
consistent, and moreover extremely useful way to describe the
expanding Universe on small scales:
1. Decide to approximate spacetime as flat over a finite neighborhood.
2. Lay down a coordinate system (such as Riemann normal coordinates)
that "does the best job possible" of approximating curved spacetime as
flat spacetime over this neighborhood.
3. Calculate the redshift of nearby galaxies using the standard
This procedure works: it gives the right answer, up to errors of order
(size of neighborhood) / (spacetime curvature scale). And in this
approximation, the galaxy's redshift is a Doppler shift.
A key principle of general relativity is that it reduces to special
relativity over small scales. This is just an example of that.
I honestly don't understand why this procedure is any different from
what we do all the time when we use special relativity to analyze
experiments in terrestrial labs. We know that spacetime in the
vicinity of the Earth isn't flat, but we also know that pretending it
is flat is an excellent approximation over small enough length and
time scales. In circumstances in which we're willing to ignore errors
of order (length scale of experiment)/(spacetime curvature scale), we
cheerfully pretend spacetime is flat, lay down appropriate
coordinates, and apply special relativity. We can do exactly the same
thing in smallish neighborhoods of an expanding
I suspect that some people who say that you can't do this believe
something like the following: if you follow the procedure I've
outlined above, you calculate redshifts of zero for the other
galaxies, because the redshifts themselves are of the same order
(neighborhood size / curvatur scale) as the errors. But that's
not so. If you lay down Riemann normal coordinates in a neighborhood
of an FRW spacetime, you find that other galaxies are moving away from
us in those coordinates in accordance with Hubble's law.
[E-mail me at , as opposed to .]
|Thread||Thread Starter||Forum||Replies||Last Post|
|"Dark matter" forms dense clumps in ghost universe (Forwarded)||Andrew Yee||Astronomy Misc||0||November 21st 03 05:41 PM|
|Galaxies without dark matter halos?||greywolf42||Astronomy Misc||34||November 5th 03 01:34 PM|
|Galaxies without dark matter halos?||Ed Keane III||Research||10||August 8th 03 10:40 AM|
|A Detailed Map of Dark Matter in a Galactic Cluster Reveals How Giant Cosmic Structures Formed||Ron Baalke||Astronomy Misc||3||August 5th 03 02:16 PM|
|Hubble tracks down a galaxy cluster's dark matter (Forwarded)||Andrew Yee||Astronomy Misc||0||July 17th 03 01:42 PM|