Anyone Using an A-P Mount and TheSkyX?

On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 1:04:12 PM UTC-5, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
On Sunday, March 20, 2016 at 7:34:51 AM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
If so, you may be able to tell me why TheSkyX Pro (latest daily build
running on the latest El Capitan) reports that the OTA is on the east
side of the mount immediately after resuming from Park 1, when the OTA
is most definitely on the west side of the mount. I don't know if it's
the mount reporting its position improperly or the TheSkyX being
confused. I suspect the latter, as GOTO works from the A-P
keypad--indicating that the A-P knows where it is. But that doesn't
necessarily mean that it is properly reporting what it knows to
TheSkyX.

Thanks!

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

Park 1 is at the Meridian pointing to the Northern Horizon. The moment that you start the mount tracking, it will track past the meridian and the telescope will indeed be on the east side of the meridian. Yes, it's on the west side physically, but the tube assembly is now underneath the mount (counterweights are slightly above), and the optics will be pointing to the eastern portion of the horizon.

Actually I was wrong about this. Pier side is a convention that was made by the professional astronomy community many many years ago, well before the age of amateur GoTo mounts. Basically it has to do with whether the Declination number is positive or negative. For all positive Dec numbers with the scope on the West side, your planetarium program (TheSkyX Pro) will declare that the scope is on the west side. For all negative Dec numbers - basically all numbers below the pole - TheSkyX will declare the scope to be on the East side.

Davoud:
If so, you may be able to tell me why TheSkyX Pro (latest daily build
running on the latest El Capitan) reports that the OTA is on the east
side of the mount immediately after resuming from Park 1, when the OTA
is most definitely on the west side of the mount. I don't know if it's
the mount reporting its position improperly or the TheSkyX being
confused. I suspect the latter, as GOTO works from the A-P
keypad--indicating that the A-P knows where it is. But that doesn't
necessarily mean that it is properly reporting what it knows to
TheSkyX.

SlurpieMcDoublegulp:
Park 1 is at the Meridian pointing to the Northern Horizon. The moment that
you start the mount tracking, it will track past the meridian and the
telescope will indeed be on the east side of the meridian. Yes, it's on the
west side physically, but the tube assembly is now underneath the mount
(counterweights are slightly above), and the optics will be pointing to the
eastern portion of the horizon.

Actually I was wrong about this. Pier side is a convention that was made by
the professional astronomy community many many years ago, well before the age
of amateur GoTo mounts. Basically it has to do with whether the Declination
number is positive or negative. For all positive Dec numbers with the scope
on the West side, your planetarium program (TheSkyX Pro) will declare that
the scope is on the west side. For all negative Dec numbers - basically all
numbers below the pole - TheSkyX will declare the scope to be on the East side.

OK, here's what's really happening as I have learned just today.
Firstly, TheSkyX does not declare anything. It gets a piece of data
from the A-P hand controller that says either "east" or "west." TheSkyX
merely repeats what it has been told. At least one of your statements
above is true.

But that's not the important thing. The important thing is that
Astro-Physics has released the following in a PDF
http://www.astro-physics.com/images/Park_Positions_Defined.pdf:
"WARNING! Park 1 is considered an obsolete park position. Use Park 1 at
your own risk!" and "[Park 4] is the new Reference Park Position."

This is most unfortunate for me, as my observatory is very small
(2-meter dome) and Park 1, which was sanctioned by Astro-Physics for
many years, was the only position that gave me sufficient space to
comfortably place a small laptop table (fold-up, but sturdy,
slide-projector stand from 1976!) and a small stool for my comfort. I
used Park 1 with-and-without a computer for many years with no
problems. I have no idea why Park 1 is suddenly Bad, but if I had to
guess I would say a bug in recent hand controller software. I know that
the software has a leap-year bug that affected Park 1 from 1 January to
1 March.

In any case, I'm going to have to do some re-thinking, including how
I'll get through my main (north side) door without bashing my face on
my camera http://www.primordial-light.com/observatory.html.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 9:04:29 PM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
Davoud:
If so, you may be able to tell me why TheSkyX Pro (latest daily build
running on the latest El Capitan) reports that the OTA is on the east
side of the mount immediately after resuming from Park 1, when the OTA
is most definitely on the west side of the mount. I don't know if it's
the mount reporting its position improperly or the TheSkyX being
confused. I suspect the latter, as GOTO works from the A-P
keypad--indicating that the A-P knows where it is. But that doesn't
necessarily mean that it is properly reporting what it knows to
TheSkyX.

SlurpieMcDoublegulp:
Park 1 is at the Meridian pointing to the Northern Horizon. The moment that
you start the mount tracking, it will track past the meridian and the
telescope will indeed be on the east side of the meridian. Yes, it's on the
west side physically, but the tube assembly is now underneath the mount
(counterweights are slightly above), and the optics will be pointing to the
eastern portion of the horizon.

Actually I was wrong about this. Pier side is a convention that was made by
the professional astronomy community many many years ago, well before the age
of amateur GoTo mounts. Basically it has to do with whether the Declination
number is positive or negative. For all positive Dec numbers with the scope
on the West side, your planetarium program (TheSkyX Pro) will declare that
the scope is on the west side. For all negative Dec numbers - basically all
numbers below the pole - TheSkyX will declare the scope to be on the East side.

OK, here's what's really happening as I have learned just today.
Firstly, TheSkyX does not declare anything. It gets a piece of data
from the A-P hand controller that says either "east" or "west." TheSkyX
merely repeats what it has been told. At least one of your statements
above is true.

But that's not the important thing. The important thing is that
Astro-Physics has released the following in a PDF
http://www.astro-physics.com/images/Park_Positions_Defined.pdf:
"WARNING! Park 1 is considered an obsolete park position. Use Park 1 at
your own risk!" and "[Park 4] is the new Reference Park Position."

This is most unfortunate for me, as my observatory is very small
(2-meter dome) and Park 1, which was sanctioned by Astro-Physics for
many years, was the only position that gave me sufficient space to
comfortably place a small laptop table (fold-up, but sturdy,
slide-projector stand from 1976!) and a small stool for my comfort. I
used Park 1 with-and-without a computer for many years with no
problems. I have no idea why Park 1 is suddenly Bad, but if I had to
guess I would say a bug in recent hand controller software. I know that
the software has a leap-year bug that affected Park 1 from 1 January to
1 March.

In any case, I'm going to have to do some re-thinking, including how
I'll get through my main (north side) door without bashing my face on
my camera http://www.primordial-light.com/observatory.html.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

You can use Park 1, I use it all the time. It is NOT obsolete, just not recommended due to sensitivity to user error. You just have to remember that once you start the mount, it will begin to track at the sidereal rate. If you walk away or fall asleep, eventually the scope can be driven into the mount. If you keep your clutches somewhat loose, nothing bad will happen. The RA axis will simply slip when the scope cannot go any further. However with clutches fully tight you might damage the scope or mount when contact is made.

The Leap year bug in the keypad is fixed, so nothing to worry about there either.

Davoud:
But that's not the important thing. The important thing is that
Astro-Physics has released the following in a PDF
http://www.astro-physics.com/images/Park_Positions_Defined.pdf:
"WARNING! Park 1 is considered an obsolete park position. Use Park 1 at
your own risk!" and "[Park 4] is the new Reference Park Position."

SlurpieMcDoublegulp:
You can use Park 1, I use it all the time. It is NOT obsolete, just not
recommended due to sensitivity to user error. You just have to remember that
once you start the mount, it will begin to track at the sidereal rate. If you
walk away or fall asleep, eventually the scope can be driven into the mount.
If you keep your clutches somewhat loose, nothing bad will happen. The RA
axis will simply slip when the scope cannot go any further. However with
clutches fully tight you might damage the scope or mount when contact is made.

That's good to know. I have never resumed from Park 1 and then gone off
and forgotten what I was doing, but I have delayed while doing some
other task in the zerbat'ry. Maybe the dire "WARNING!" in the A-P PDF
on park positions needs to be toned down a bit. "Slew the telescope to
an object immediately after resuming from the Park 1 position..." that
sort of thing. If Park 1 isn't obsolete, then you should not say in the
PDF that "Park 1 is considered an obsolete park position." Just tell it
like it is and perhaps even we weak-minded users will be able to figure
it out.

The Leap year bug in the keypad is fixed, so nothing to worry about there either.

Fixed for those for whom the updater worked. But I have bought a new
serial adapter with FTDI chip to use in place of my Keyspan and I
haven't had the opportunity to try it yet. Would like to wait until the
temperature rises above -273C.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 2:17:30 AM UTC, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 9:04:29 PM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
Davoud:
If so, you may be able to tell me why TheSkyX Pro (latest daily build
running on the latest El Capitan) reports that the OTA is on the east
side of the mount immediately after resuming from Park 1, when the OTA
is most definitely on the west side of the mount. I don't know if it's
the mount reporting its position improperly or the TheSkyX being
confused. I suspect the latter, as GOTO works from the A-P
keypad--indicating that the A-P knows where it is. But that doesn't
necessarily mean that it is properly reporting what it knows to
TheSkyX.

SlurpieMcDoublegulp:
Park 1 is at the Meridian pointing to the Northern Horizon. The moment that
you start the mount tracking, it will track past the meridian and the
telescope will indeed be on the east side of the meridian. Yes, it's on the
west side physically, but the tube assembly is now underneath the mount
(counterweights are slightly above), and the optics will be pointing to the
eastern portion of the horizon.

Actually I was wrong about this. Pier side is a convention that was made by
the professional astronomy community many many years ago, well before the age
of amateur GoTo mounts. Basically it has to do with whether the Declination
number is positive or negative. For all positive Dec numbers with the scope
on the West side, your planetarium program (TheSkyX Pro) will declare that
the scope is on the west side. For all negative Dec numbers - basically all
numbers below the pole - TheSkyX will declare the scope to be on the East side.

OK, here's what's really happening as I have learned just today.
Firstly, TheSkyX does not declare anything. It gets a piece of data
from the A-P hand controller that says either "east" or "west." TheSkyX
merely repeats what it has been told. At least one of your statements
above is true.

But that's not the important thing. The important thing is that
Astro-Physics has released the following in a PDF
http://www.astro-physics.com/images/Park_Positions_Defined.pdf:
"WARNING! Park 1 is considered an obsolete park position. Use Park 1 at
your own risk!" and "[Park 4] is the new Reference Park Position."

This is most unfortunate for me, as my observatory is very small
(2-meter dome) and Park 1, which was sanctioned by Astro-Physics for
many years, was the only position that gave me sufficient space to
comfortably place a small laptop table (fold-up, but sturdy,
slide-projector stand from 1976!) and a small stool for my comfort. I
used Park 1 with-and-without a computer for many years with no
problems. I have no idea why Park 1 is suddenly Bad, but if I had to
guess I would say a bug in recent hand controller software. I know that
the software has a leap-year bug that affected Park 1 from 1 January to
1 March.

In any case, I'm going to have to do some re-thinking, including how
I'll get through my main (north side) door without bashing my face on
my camera http://www.primordial-light.com/observatory.html.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

You can use Park 1, I use it all the time. It is NOT obsolete, just not recommended due to sensitivity to user error. You just have to remember that once you start the mount, it will begin to track at the sidereal rate.

You give yourselves the comforting title of 'old timers' but there is something rotten about unapologetic old men unable to escape a celestial sphere trance that continues to poison the next generation of humanity. The fact is that you equate the 'sidereal rate' with the Earth's rotation in direct conflict with the Lat/Long system which determines an Equatorial speed of 1037.5 miles per hour and a complete rotation of the planetary circumference once in 24 hours.

Had you enough sense you would qualify the 'sidereal rate' as a timekeeping average within the calendar framework but the attraction of pasting everything on to a rotating celestial sphere is so mesmerizing that nothing else exists. For you Leo moving in circumpolar motion is proof of Spring and not the fact that the Sun will set below the local horizon at the Antarctic pole today signaling fall in the Southern hemisphere and Spring in the Northern -

http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/antarctica/south-pole

You are probably aware that a whole different type of astronomy exists outside the celestial sphere bubble you and the other magnification guys exist in where the lines between fiction and reality blur. A society that loses it ability to exercise those faculties necessary to make sense of observations will also lose perspectives in all other areas of existence and this is why astronomy has always been important to society going to back to antiquity.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 2:17:30 AM UTC, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 9:04:29 PM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
Davoud:
If so, you may be able to tell me why TheSkyX Pro (latest daily build
running on the latest El Capitan) reports that the OTA is on the east
side of the mount immediately after resuming from Park 1, when the OTA
is most definitely on the west side of the mount. I don't know if it's
the mount reporting its position improperly or the TheSkyX being
confused. I suspect the latter, as GOTO works from the A-P
keypad--indicating that the A-P knows where it is. But that doesn't
necessarily mean that it is properly reporting what it knows to
TheSkyX.

SlurpieMcDoublegulp:
Park 1 is at the Meridian pointing to the Northern Horizon. The moment that
you start the mount tracking, it will track past the meridian and the
telescope will indeed be on the east side of the meridian. Yes, it's on the
west side physically, but the tube assembly is now underneath the mount
(counterweights are slightly above), and the optics will be pointing to the
eastern portion of the horizon.

Actually I was wrong about this. Pier side is a convention that was made by
the professional astronomy community many many years ago, well before the age
of amateur GoTo mounts. Basically it has to do with whether the Declination
number is positive or negative. For all positive Dec numbers with the scope
on the West side, your planetarium program (TheSkyX Pro) will declare that
the scope is on the west side. For all negative Dec numbers - basically all
numbers below the pole - TheSkyX will declare the scope to be on the East side.

OK, here's what's really happening as I have learned just today.
Firstly, TheSkyX does not declare anything. It gets a piece of data
from the A-P hand controller that says either "east" or "west." TheSkyX
merely repeats what it has been told. At least one of your statements
above is true.

But that's not the important thing. The important thing is that
Astro-Physics has released the following in a PDF
http://www.astro-physics.com/images/Park_Positions_Defined.pdf:
"WARNING! Park 1 is considered an obsolete park position. Use Park 1 at
your own risk!" and "[Park 4] is the new Reference Park Position."

This is most unfortunate for me, as my observatory is very small
(2-meter dome) and Park 1, which was sanctioned by Astro-Physics for
many years, was the only position that gave me sufficient space to
comfortably place a small laptop table (fold-up, but sturdy,
slide-projector stand from 1976!) and a small stool for my comfort. I
used Park 1 with-and-without a computer for many years with no
problems. I have no idea why Park 1 is suddenly Bad, but if I had to
guess I would say a bug in recent hand controller software. I know that
the software has a leap-year bug that affected Park 1 from 1 January to
1 March.

In any case, I'm going to have to do some re-thinking, including how
I'll get through my main (north side) door without bashing my face on
my camera http://www.primordial-light.com/observatory.html.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

You can use Park 1, I use it all the time. It is NOT obsolete, just not recommended due to sensitivity to user error. You just have to remember that once you start the mount, it will begin to track at the sidereal rate.

This is how the 'sidereal rate' and its rotating celestial sphere framework looks to you -

http://www.opencourse.info/astronomy...phere_anim.gif

This is how it actually looks in reality -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap140620.html

Technically you look like thugs run amok in the discipline of astronomy but you are all that exists after centuries worth of devastation visited on many of the great insights.

Today is the celebration of the Easter rising in Ireland where a few men took it upon themselves to challenge a regime knowing they were going to die and especially knowing the wider population didn't generally support the action. People come around to an atmosphere that is productive and creative when they sit up and pay attention to things which once didn't occupy consideration so as long as they sleep within celestial sphere ideologies they will never experience the intimate connection they have with the planet's motions within the structure of the solar system and the wider Universe.

On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 9:04:29 PM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
Davoud:

"OK, here's what's really happening as I have learned just today.
Firstly, TheSkyX does not declare anything. It gets a piece of data
from the A-P hand controller that says either "east" or "west." TheSkyX
merely repeats what it has been told. At least one of your statements
above is true."

The keypad does not send anything to any other software. The keypad is irrelevant to the operation of the mount. It is simply a database planetarium program without the charts.

When TheSkyX queries the mount for scope position, the mount servo sends the pier side according to the Declination sign. The mount servo does not have a readout, so it cannot declare anything for you to read. Therefore the pier side declaration is done by TheSkyX so you read it on your laptop screen.

Davoud:
"OK, here's what's really happening as I have learned just today.
Firstly, TheSkyX does not declare anything. It gets a piece of data
from the A-P hand controller that says either "east" or "west." TheSkyX
merely repeats what it has been told....

SlurpieMcDoublegulp
The keypad does not send anything to any other software. The keypad is
irrelevant to the operation of the mount. It is simply a database planetarium
program without the charts.

When TheSkyX queries the mount for scope position, the mount servo sends the
pier side according to the Declination sign. The mount servo does not have a
readout, so it cannot declare anything for you to read. Therefore the pier
side declaration is done by TheSkyX so you read it on your laptop screen.

Christ, I hate being caught in the middle, especially when the people
on either side of me are experts and I am a lowly user. Daniel Bisque
wrote in the SoftBisqUser Yahoo Group today "The AP hand paddle, not
TheSkyX, is entirely responsible for determining the OTA side of pier.
TheSkyX asks the hand paddle ³What side of pier is the OTA on?², and
then displays what the hand controller is reporting."

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm