BURAN - Foam shedding or not?

Could foam shedding affect the Russian shuttle Buran as well? Its
Energia booster also used cryogenic fuel so I presume there was some
insulation. So, was there any possibility of shedding or not? And if
so, was there any possibility of foam shed hitting Buran? I would be
very greatful for any answers on that.

Regards,

Karol P.

"kvant" wrote in message
oups.com...
Could foam shedding affect the Russian shuttle Buran as well? Its
Energia booster also used cryogenic fuel so I presume there was some
insulation. So, was there any possibility of shedding or not? And if
so, was there any possibility of foam shed hitting Buran? I would be
very greatful for any answers on that.

Regards,

Karol P.


I am not aware that Buran used exterior foam - there are major differences
in the main engine placement and layout from US Shuttle and Buran.

gb

There are numerous photos of the exterior insulation of the Soviet
shuttle nicked and scarred but don't know if these are the flight
article or the test frames (some through transport I understand) but as
far as origin of other damage, its a good question...........Doc

kvant wrote:
Could foam shedding affect the Russian shuttle Buran as well? Its
Energia booster also used cryogenic fuel so I presume there was some
insulation. So, was there any possibility of shedding or not? And if
so, was there any possibility of foam shed hitting Buran? I would be
very greatful for any answers on that.

Regards,

Karol P.


It only flew the once. Not sure of it did have foam

--
Julian Bordas
Rockets should land on their tails
as God and Heinlein intended

On the subject of the Energia booster having foam insulation, the
answer is no. For the first two flights, the second of which carried
the first Buran orbiter, there was no insulation on the exterior.
Postflight photos taken of Buran shows that ice shards broke off the
booster tank and struck the Buran thermal tiles, that in a manner
disturbingly similar to Columbia, knocked off three tiles on the
underside of the orbiter's wing that happened to border the wingtip
leading edge reinforced carbon-carbon panels. Had the ice struck about
20 to 30 cm or so higher, it could well have punched a hole in the
Buran RCC, and lead to a loss of the vehicle as happened with Columbia.
As it was, the loss of the three tiles was in a somewhat less critical
area, and the Buran orbiter survived with some thermal damage to the
underlying aluminum alloy airframe structure, though exactly how badly
damaged has not been revealed in any offical reports that I'am aware
of.

For the cancelled third flight of Energia, which also would have been
the first flight of the second Buran orbiter, the core booster tankage
had a number of thermal insulation panels installed. How effective
these would have been is unknown, as is their ability to withstand
launch forces.
-Mike

gb wrote:

I am not aware that Buran used exterior foam - there are major differences
in the main engine placement and layout from US Shuttle and Buran.



I would assume that it would have to, as you don't see frost on it when
it was launched.
Here's a big shot of it with the Buran on top of it- the insulation
appears to be attached in the form of individual sheets:
http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/gub3-8.jpg

Pat

wrote:

There are numerous photos of the exterior insulation of the Soviet
shuttle nicked and scarred but don't know if these are the flight
article or the test frames (some through transport I understand) but as
far as origin of other damage, its a good question...........Doc



Here are shots of the tile damage- most of it looks reentry related:
http://www.buran.ru/htm/tersaf2.htm

Pat

wrote:

On the subject of the Energia booster having foam insulation, the
answer is no. For the first two flights, the second of which carried
the first Buran orbiter, there was no insulation on the exterior.



This photo of the Energia-Polyus seems to show that at least the top of
the LOX tank had some sort of insulation on it:
http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/6cl-1.jpg
here's a shot showing insulation on the nose and top half of the LOX
tank with a Buran shuttle attached:
http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/gub3-29.jpg
and here's one with all-around insulation on the LOX tank:
http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/gub3-8.jpg
Assuming that the third picture is of the unlaunched second Buran
flight, then the other one could be the first buran flight, and appears
to have some sort of spray-on insulation like the Polyus carrier does,
at least on the side facing the Shuttle.

Pat

Not sure if these would be all reentry related. Note the vertical tail
edge and you have to ask yourself was this a stunt double in
Armegeddon? Seriously, what would cause that type of damage?. I'm
reminded of when we transported one of the shuttles and the tiles were
shredded and ripped off. I wonder if this is the result of rain, but I
guess the question then arises, during reentry or transport, would the
Russkies have done a reentry through rain? (great site) ............Doc

wrote:

Not sure if these would be all reentry related. Note the vertical tail
edge and you have to ask yourself was this a stunt double in
Armegeddon? Seriously, what would cause that type of damage?.


I assume that it overheated and started to disintegrate; the tiles on
the sides of the rear body also suffered bad damage like that
..

I'm
reminded of when we transported one of the shuttles and the tiles were
shredded and ripped off. I wonder if this is the result of rain, but I
guess the question then arises, during reentry or transport, would the
Russkies have done a reentry through rain? (great site) ............Doc



Huge website with all sorts of cool stuff on it and very interactive; I
spent days going through it and bookmarking all of the interesting pages.
Wanna see something neat?
Go to this page and start clicking on various parts of that color
perspective cutaway drawing: http://www.buran.ru/htm/techno.htm
And here are cutaway drawings of an honest-to-God space fighter design:
http://www.buran.ru/htm/str126.htm
....and info on the jet powered prototype including some films of its
drop tests: http://www.buran.ru/htm/epos.htm


Pat