MER Rovers disappointment so far..

"Jon Berndt" wrote in message
...
"Mike Morris"

For heavens sake, the Viking (soft) landers both were successful with
70s
technology, so in fact; we should be expecting way more from these

Can anyone relate what the cost of the Viking missions was in today's
dollars? Just curious.

I'll remind you, regarding the Viking missions: do you remember one of the
more prominent bugs that bit them in the initial days of one of their
missions? What's happening on Mars now with the MERs is not unique.

Also, I'd disagree with you about the statement "We are supposed to be
making Mars robotic missions look commonplace". That's never been any
part
of the goal with MER.

I know it hasnt been the goal of the MER missions; but if we are going
to become a consistent spacefaring civilisation, then Mars landers
should look easy.

"t_mark" wrote in message
news:hovSb.10847$L_4.1109@okepread01...
Someone someday will also be disappointed in the discovery of a cure for
cancer. Geezus.

That is going a bit far.

"Mike Morris" wrote ...

"t_mark" wrote ...
Someone someday will also be disappointed in the discovery of a cure for
cancer. Geezus.

That is going a bit far.

"Hey Jo!"

"Yes, Fred?"

"I've discovered the cure for cancer!"

"Well, Gee. That's nice an'all - just a pity that an asteroid the size of Australia is
about to hit Earth."

"Mike Morris" wrote in message ...
While I am totally onside with the idea of exploring
mars and the rest of our solar system; I am starting
to wonder whether we have been sold a pup with
these MER rovers.

I have to say that so far I'm not too impressed with the
science that has come from the Mer rovers.

What science! - Soil structure? Or may be life signs? It is
interesting to look at the curious combination of known but price is
too high to satisfy this curiosity. There are indeed fundamental areas
of research that will affect humanity destiny:

-New physics (meta physics ;o)
-Genome ingenerating
-Nuclear fusion; it is not as fundamental but it has the highest
practical priority. 20-30 years and US oil-economy will face total
annihilation if do not take care today.

Unfortunately, the prestige of scientist in US is much lower to be
adequate to attract sufficient number the most gifted part of
generation. The typical mass-media scientist image is a good
illustration of its social status (freaks). The tax money has to be
spent not for personal reelection campaign but keeping in mind the
strategic country benefits. The nuclear fusion is a good example that
even trivial/evident strategic solution is neglected since it does
look as a threat for current corporative lay out. Anyway this crisis
will come and it will be overcome but the price may be very different
and may be very unfortunate for US.

George

"Mike Morris" wrote in news:bvddin$5ur$1
@titan.btinternet.com:

While I am totally onside with the idea of exploring
mars and the rest of our solar system; I am starting
to wonder whether we have been sold a pup with
these MER rovers.


I agree that the pace of information out of JPL has been slower than it
should be, and they occasionally do seem to be afraid of their own
shadows.

I think they are so stunned at going 2 for 2, they can't think clearly
about what to do next. They are just standing back and rubbing their
chins in disbelief. Don't worry, it'll wear off soon.

Lets put this in a reasonable context. These rovers represent only the
4th and 5th times human scientists have landed a fully working spacecraft
on Mars and these guys did it twice in three weeks -- this alone will go
down as a signal achievement in the annals of science -- we are already
talking first class honours in the Bill Nye hall of fame here.

The science up to now is mostly engineering and telecommunications, not
geological but it is excellent, unparalleled science nonetheless.
Proving something can be done opens up a lot of doors.

And besides, just like ketchup, isn't it all about anticipation?

Fact is, anything and everything these beasts find will be new to us so
there should be loads of excitement ahead.

Mark

"mlm" wrote in message
...
"Mike Morris" wrote in news:bvddin$5ur$1
@titan.btinternet.com:

While I am totally onside with the idea of exploring
mars and the rest of our solar system; I am starting
to wonder whether we have been sold a pup with
these MER rovers.


I agree that the pace of information out of JPL has been slower than it
should be, and they occasionally do seem to be afraid of their own
shadows.

I think they are so stunned at going 2 for 2, they can't think clearly
about what to do next. They are just standing back and rubbing their
chins in disbelief. Don't worry, it'll wear off soon.

Lets put this in a reasonable context. These rovers represent only the
4th and 5th times human scientists have landed a fully working spacecraft
on Mars and these guys did it twice in three weeks -- this alone will go
down as a signal achievement in the annals of science -- we are already
talking first class honours in the Bill Nye hall of fame here.

The science up to now is mostly engineering and telecommunications, not
geological but it is excellent, unparalleled science nonetheless.
Proving something can be done opens up a lot of doors.

And besides, just like ketchup, isn't it all about anticipation?

Fact is, anything and everything these beasts find will be new to us so
there should be loads of excitement ahead.

Yes, I hope you're right. Apparenty the MiniTES reading on that
rock outcrop at Meridiani, has some interesting results......but
they are keeping us waiting :-)

mlm writes:

I agree that the pace of information out of JPL has been slower than it
should be, and they occasionally do seem to be afraid of their own
shadows.

I think they are so stunned at going 2 for 2, they can't think clearly
about what to do next. They are just standing back and rubbing their
chins in disbelief. Don't worry, it'll wear off soon.

Or they're too busy trying to get MER-1 back up and running and too
busy getting MER-2 started to worry about press releases every 15
minutes.

Lets put this in a reasonable context. These rovers represent only the
4th and 5th times human scientists have landed a fully working spacecraft
on Mars and these guys did it twice in three weeks -- this alone will go
down as a signal achievement in the annals of science -- we are already
talking first class honours in the Bill Nye hall of fame here.

The science up to now is mostly engineering and telecommunications, not
geological but it is excellent, unparalleled science nonetheless.
Proving something can be done opens up a lot of doors.

MER-1 is starting to do more than just engineering and
telecommunications. Last I heard, they'll back to science this
weekend.

And besides, just like ketchup, isn't it all about anticipation?

Fact is, anything and everything these beasts find will be new to us so
there should be loads of excitement ahead.

Hopefully science too. ;-)

Jeff
--
Remove "no" and "spam" from email address to reply.
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"Julius Kilo" wrote in message
gy.com...
....
I second that. They have this expensive and incredible hardware safely on
the surface of Mars and are afraid to actually use it. Every press
conference is basically a teaser about how good it's gonna be real soon
now--after the engineers get done dicking around with studying ephemeral
motor current spikes and such. Oh, and the scientists can do their science
like the cleanup crew after a parade--like take a look at those airbag
marks, will ya? Cool huh? Incredible even. Study that.
I DO understand why they are "afraid" to "use" the expensive rovers -
think if YOU had to press the buttons (I'm sure that it's not a single
button!) to let one of the rovers egress - and the egress went wrong...
I'm sure that they do it step-by-step - and due to the distance from earth
to mars "a step" takes some minutes (30 minutes?) to complete.

Here's a good test for Opportunity: just drive it to that outcrop
for cripe sakes and test it on something real. CARPE SOL!!!
It's might be best to stay in the dark in order to cool the rover ;-)


Look at Spirit for a continuing case in point. They know they have a
corrupt
file system on the flash memory, but are so worried about losing the files
because they give the engineers something to chew on for maybe several
more
weeks to analyze what happened. So they're gonna try to get a stack trace,
or try to do minor surgery every day to save what they admit are not very
valuable or irreplacable data. Just reformat the ****er and get going!
Final
engineering report: it was hosed. OK, move on!
IMHO I think that they are afraid of losing control of the rover - It's
quite expensive to send a service rep to mars!
My rule of thumb - to fix SW problems - has always been to try to understand
it!
If you don't understand why your software behaves as it does - bug-fixing
always seems to introduce more errors than it solves! At least that seems to
be my experience.

Actually, it's getting slightly better. If Opportunity rolls off on
Sunday,
that will be a quicker egress than with Spirit.
Lets hope so!

---
Henrik

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:01:43 +0000 (UTC), "Mike Morris"
wrote:


While I am totally onside with the idea of exploring
mars and the rest of our solar system; I am starting
to wonder whether we have been sold a pup with
these MER rovers.

I have to say that so far I'm not too impressed with the
science that has come from the Mer rovers.

Wow! And you've given Opportunity a whole six days to prove itself.
Remember, Spirit conked out right when it was about to first drill
into a rock for analysis.

Brian

"Mike Morris" wrote:

I know it hasnt been the goal of the MER missions; but if we are going
to become a consistent spacefaring civilisation, then Mars landers
should look easy.

Why? We are a sea-faring civilization, and have been for centuries,
yet even today doing something significant on the surface of the ocean
is far from easy.

D.
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