Tholenbot Site Found!

Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:


I see what you are saying there, Double-A

Tholen: Famous astronomer.
- asterism

Bruce: Infamous arsehole.
- asterick

Are you suggesting that they are made for each other ?



Double-A

RL


RL, the more I find out about Tholen, the more impressed I am with his
standing in the scientific community. I am at a loss to explain his
antics here on Usenet, but when I went back over that most recent
thread, he really was asking a serious question about OS2 in the
appropriate group, when Bruce jumped him with an insult, followed by
PJR, and then the rest of the AUKers jumped in, followed by the rest of
us. Perhaps he just perceived us as more harassers. I really wish he
would share some of his knowledge with some astronomy related posts,
but I guess if he doesn't want to, he has that choice. Since it
appears to be really he who is posting here (with that noted
exception), I am not feeling good about being any further part of
harassing the man.

Double-A

Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:


I see what you are saying there, Double-A

Tholen: Famous astronomer.
- asterism

Bruce: Infamous arsehole.
- asterick

Are you suggesting that they are made for each other ?



Double-A

RL


RL, the more I find out about Tholen, the more impressed I am with his
standing in the scientific community. I am at a loss to explain his
antics here on Usenet, but when I went back over that most recent
thread, he really was asking a serious question about OS2 in the
appropriate group, when Bruce jumped him with an insult, followed by
PJR, and then the rest of the AUKers jumped in, followed by the rest of
us. Perhaps he just perceived us as more harassers. I really wish he
would share some of his knowledge with some astronomy related posts,
but I guess if he doesn't want to, he has that choice. Since it
appears to be really he who is posting here (with that noted
exception), I am not feeling good about being any further part of
harassing the man.

Double-A

as=B7ter=B7ism Audio pronunciation of "asterism" ( P ) Pronunciation
Key (st-rzm)
n=2E

1. Printing. Three asterisks in a triangular formation used to call
attention to a following passage.
2. Astronomy. A cluster of stars smaller than a constellation.
3. Mineralogy. A six-rayed starlike figure optically produced in
some crystal structures by reflected or transmitted light.

~ dictionary.com

Double-A, notice that I did not say anything disrespectful of Prof.
Tholen in my response to you.

I am glad that you came to this conclusion, yourself. I have been aware
of such for quite awhile.

The "Tholen" travelling road show has been going on for quite a few
years now. I think that everyone, including David Tholen would benefit
from having a few more considerations pointed out.

He has suffered a great deal through relentless harassment over the
years. It's easy to be sympathetic to how he feels about this. I am
happy to accept him, any way that I find him.

Unfortunately, like anyone, he sometimes doesn't make things easy for
himself.

Not everyone seems able to come to recognize what you do about David
Tholen. Wheeas you and I may accept him, there are others who
don't/cannot do so. ... That is what perpetuates the "circus", herein.

Criticizing Tholen on his behavior as arises from him being bullied by
his detractors is a non starter ... Such relentless intrusion could
turn anyone into a 'nutjob'. You, yourself have had a small dose of
it. Imagine what it must be like having to deal with it for years!

In the last day or two, I have allowed myself to become deliberately
angry with David. I am very deliberate about this.

Myself and others have considerable genuine respect and sympathy for
him. I have no difficulty with emphasizing with his predicament.

For whatever reasons ??? , he doesn't seem to know who his friends are,
or at least those who appreciate and respect his contribution, here in
Usenet.

Everyone has their own skill, Double-A. I may not know much about
astronomy; .. I may be a third rate, physical scientist, but I do know
what I do well; what I can be confident in.

I knew when I had outperformed Prof. Tholen in an intellectual sense;
whilst at one and the same time as being supportive and respectful of
his own efforts.

Instead of seeing the situation as such, he treated me as a detractor
and started to be nasty about it. ... See http://tinyurl.com/bn9fx
which is where I went negative.

He failed to pick up on someone (such as myself) who appreciates him
for who he is in the skilled sense and re-interprets it as disrespect.

There is nothing unique in this. This awkward turn of interpretation
has occured with others on Usenet.

Frankly, I don't care. I respect David Tholen and I will continue to do
so, regardless of whatever his response is or isn't to me. My
accpetance isn't contingent upon any reciprocity. Prof. Tholen earned
my respect by being himself and doing what he does. We are both
'irrelevent'. This is Usenet.

Other people are not "me". They have their own ability. In my
experience they are apt to be far less tolerant and understanding of
being unilaterally and unconditionally rebuffed by David Tholen.

And thus they temporarily or otherwise join the ranks of those who
continue to harrang the man.

----------

My purpose in all of this ?

To call 'bull ****' on David.
To say, .. "Listen, mate ... I respect you for REAL". So do
others.
It sure hurts me to see that you can't accept your own self. ..
I've got no problem with it. You sure, as heck shouldn't have any
qualms about belonging ...

And if Tholen's answer is 'No', then it's 'No'. I tried ... I did what
I could ... I sure as heck don't think any less of him because of such
one way or the other.

It would just be nice to see him be kind to himself for a change.

---------------

Whether Tholen is a great astronomer or a nobody really doesn't matter
to me Double-A. I felt that he was relentlessly harrased, and quitely
clearly undeserving of such, months ago; soon after I got invoved in
Usenet.

I earned a 'Busted Urinal Award' because I deliberately and
systematically acted to denounce the 'bullying' against David Tholen
and Charles Bohne.

In standing up, I was criticized. My anctics were mocked ... Not just
by those of AUK; but some of those in r.m.c. At the time of voting for
'Raving Loonie' for busted urinal, ... I was ignored through not
voting against the motion.
Perhaps some voted in favor of the motion.

This disregard of myself is comparable in quality to the rejection and
isolation suffered by Tholen.

I don't care. It was my deliberate choice. I accepted the consequences
of my actions.

I can say that I was dismayed that others did not see what I was
attempting to accomplish and/or were unsupportive of such. But that's
not important.

In the main, I am quite saddened to see that David Tholen couldn't see
it.

... That he can't take comfort and satisfaction that there are other
people in this world who are on his side. ... who accept, understand
and support him.

I admire David Tholen standing up to internet bullies.

Sheesh, enough already, he doesn't neeed to be so strident about it!

IMO, it ends up doing more harm than good.

----------

Albeit, irrelevent; given the hardship that Tholen has gone through all
these years ... I can accept and respect whatever he does ...
including treating me as one of his detractors.

I just hope that David Tholen can be kinder to himself.

RL

Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:


I see what you are saying there, Double-A

Tholen: Famous astronomer.
- asterism

Bruce: Infamous arsehole.
- asterick

Are you suggesting that they are made for each other ?



Double-A

RL


RL, the more I find out about Tholen, the more impressed I am with his
standing in the scientific community. I am at a loss to explain his
antics here on Usenet, but when I went back over that most recent
thread, he really was asking a serious question about OS2 in the
appropriate group, when Bruce jumped him with an insult, followed by
PJR, and then the rest of the AUKers jumped in, followed by the rest of
us. Perhaps he just perceived us as more harassers. I really wish he
would share some of his knowledge with some astronomy related posts,
but I guess if he doesn't want to, he has that choice. Since it
appears to be really he who is posting here (with that noted
exception), I am not feeling good about being any further part of
harassing the man.

Double-A

as=B7ter=B7ism Audio pronunciation of "asterism" ( P ) Pronunciation
Key (st-rzm)
n.

1. Printing. Three asterisks in a triangular formation used to call
attention to a following passage.
2. Astronomy. A cluster of stars smaller than a constellation.
3. Mineralogy. A six-rayed starlike figure optically produced in
some crystal structures by reflected or transmitted light.

~ dictionary.com

Double-A, notice that I did not say anything disrespectful of Prof.
Tholen in my response to you.


I never meant to imply that you did.


I am glad that you came to this conclusion, yourself. I have been aware
of such for quite awhile.


I know that you've been more respectful of him than I have. It's just
that when I saw his posts in alt.astronomy, I wanted to see if I could
get him to make some astronomy related posts. It went down hill from
there. Looking back at the entire thread in comp.os.os2.apps, I can
now see how his serious tread was hijacked and crossposted. Can't
blame him for being ****ed at everybody.

He has been through alt.astronomy before, giving everybody that "what
has this got to do with astronomy" line (at least I think it was him),
so I already had an attitude about him. But I now must defer to his
many discoveries in astronomy and respect him for that.

That audio interview with Tholen that I posted is very interesting. To
learn of all the football sized asteroids that pass between the Earth
and Moon and are moving too fast to photographed is unnerving!


The "Tholen" travelling road show has been going on for quite a few
years now. I think that everyone, including David Tholen would benefit
from having a few more considerations pointed out.

He has suffered a great deal through relentless harassment over the
years. It's easy to be sympathetic to how he feels about this. I am
happy to accept him, any way that I find him.

Unfortunately, like anyone, he sometimes doesn't make things easy for
himself.

Not everyone seems able to come to recognize what you do about David
Tholen. Wheeas you and I may accept him, there are others who
don't/cannot do so. ... That is what perpetuates the "circus", herein.

Criticizing Tholen on his behavior as arises from him being bullied by
his detractors is a non starter ... Such relentless intrusion could
turn anyone into a 'nutjob'. You, yourself have had a small dose of
it. Imagine what it must be like having to deal with it for years!

In the last day or two, I have allowed myself to become deliberately
angry with David. I am very deliberate about this.

Myself and others have considerable genuine respect and sympathy for
him. I have no difficulty with emphasizing with his predicament.

For whatever reasons ??? , he doesn't seem to know who his friends are,
or at least those who appreciate and respect his contribution, here in
Usenet.


Until I started researching him, I hadn't seen him make any serious
posts. That's why I thought he might be merely a bot. But I finally
found that he has attempted to make serious posts, and gotten hijacked!


Everyone has their own skill, Double-A. I may not know much about
astronomy; .. I may be a third rate, physical scientist, but I do know
what I do well; what I can be confident in.

I knew when I had outperformed Prof. Tholen in an intellectual sense;
whilst at one and the same time as being supportive and respectful of
his own efforts.

Instead of seeing the situation as such, he treated me as a detractor
and started to be nasty about it. ... See http://tinyurl.com/bn9fx
which is where I went negative.

He failed to pick up on someone (such as myself) who appreciates him
for who he is in the skilled sense and re-interprets it as disrespect.

There is nothing unique in this. This awkward turn of interpretation
has occured with others on Usenet.

Frankly, I don't care. I respect David Tholen and I will continue to do
so, regardless of whatever his response is or isn't to me. My
accpetance isn't contingent upon any reciprocity. Prof. Tholen earned
my respect by being himself and doing what he does. We are both
'irrelevent'. This is Usenet.

Other people are not "me". They have their own ability. In my
experience they are apt to be far less tolerant and understanding of
being unilaterally and unconditionally rebuffed by David Tholen.

And thus they temporarily or otherwise join the ranks of those who
continue to harrang the man.

----------

My purpose in all of this ?

To call 'bull ****' on David.
To say, .. "Listen, mate ... I respect you for REAL". So do
others.
It sure hurts me to see that you can't accept your own self. ..
I've got no problem with it. You sure, as heck shouldn't have any
qualms about belonging ...

And if Tholen's answer is 'No', then it's 'No'. I tried ... I did what
I could ... I sure as heck don't think any less of him because of such
one way or the other.

It would just be nice to see him be kind to himself for a change.

---------------

Whether Tholen is a great astronomer or a nobody really doesn't matter
to me Double-A. I felt that he was relentlessly harrased, and quitely
clearly undeserving of such, months ago; soon after I got invoved in
Usenet.

I earned a 'Busted Urinal Award' because I deliberately and
systematically acted to denounce the 'bullying' against David Tholen
and Charles Bohne.

In standing up, I was criticized. My anctics were mocked ... Not just
by those of AUK; but some of those in r.m.c. At the time of voting for
'Raving Loonie' for busted urinal, ... I was ignored through not
voting against the motion.
Perhaps some voted in favor of the motion.


I voted against your receiving that award. That's on the record.


This disregard of myself is comparable in quality to the rejection and
isolation suffered by Tholen.

I don't care. It was my deliberate choice. I accepted the consequences
of my actions.

I can say that I was dismayed that others did not see what I was
attempting to accomplish and/or were unsupportive of such. But that's
not important.

In the main, I am quite saddened to see that David Tholen couldn't see
it.

... That he can't take comfort and satisfaction that there are other
people in this world who are on his side. ... who accept, understand
and support him.

I admire David Tholen standing up to internet bullies.

Sheesh, enough already, he doesn't neeed to be so strident about it!

IMO, it ends up doing more harm than good.

----------

Albeit, irrelevent; given the hardship that Tholen has gone through all
these years ... I can accept and respect whatever he does ...
including treating me as one of his detractors.

I just hope that David Tholen can be kinder to himself.

RL


I'm sure that with all that's gone on in his life, that Usenet is just
a minor diversion.

Double-A

Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:


Double-A,

It riles me that other people who are not AUK'ers razz, Tholen. ...
Worse yet; some of these individuals end up becoming part of the AUK
community and start harassing other Usenet posters.

The intolerence ends up growing and spreading ...

You can see the results, here and now for yourself in alt.astronomy

This habit of harrassing posters mindlessly; as is done to Tholen;
becomes acceptable behavior.

Obviously, one cannot criticize Tholen; or anyone for that fact; vis a
vis ... how they conduct themselves on Usenet ... and expect a positive
outcome.

All that one can hope for is to 'sensitize' people; to make them aware
of certain things.

Example: ... Calling Bruce an idiot may be appropriate. It may make
people, here in alt.astronomy feel good.

... it encouage 'Bruce' to be an even bigger idiot ? grin

And perhaps THAT is the partial purpose to all of this ...

... to deliberately 'troll' him.

I was certainly aware that I managed to get both Bruce and Deco to blow
their cool in the past. At least with regard to Bruce, and maybe Deco,
too ... I trolled him down to a new *low* in vulgarity.

Why? ... to what end ?

Only so that at the end of the day, ... they would become sensitized,
THEMSLEVES to their own foolishness.

To my own surprise, Art seems to have turned that corner. There is much
substance to the man that neither you nor I could see before. ...
Worthwhile, interesting substance.

Now if only we could get Bruce to be sincere ... and I leave it at
that

For that day will come when it comes. I can't engineer it. ... Nor can
I fake it. To do so would be disrespectful. Bruce is his own man. That,
I respect!

Getting somebody to loose their temper, helps, Double-A. ... It makes
them human. An angry person is a sincere person. An angry person also
listens.

RL

Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:


Double-A,

It riles me that other people who are not AUK'ers razz, Tholen. ...
Worse yet; some of these individuals end up becoming part of the AUK
community and start harassing other Usenet posters.

The intolerence ends up growing and spreading ...

You can see the results, here and now for yourself in alt.astronomy

This habit of harrassing posters mindlessly; as is done to Tholen;
becomes acceptable behavior.

Obviously, one cannot criticize Tholen; or anyone for that fact; vis a
vis ... how they conduct themselves on Usenet ... and expect a positive
outcome.

All that one can hope for is to 'sensitize' people; to make them aware
of certain things.

Example: ... Calling Bruce an idiot may be appropriate. It may make
people, here in alt.astronomy feel good.

... it encouage 'Bruce' to be an even bigger idiot ? grin

And perhaps THAT is the partial purpose to all of this ...

... to deliberately 'troll' him.

I was certainly aware that I managed to get both Bruce and Deco to blow
their cool in the past. At least with regard to Bruce, and maybe Deco,
too ... I trolled him down to a new *low* in vulgarity.

Why? ... to what end ?

Only so that at the end of the day, ... they would become sensitized,
THEMSLEVES to their own foolishness.



As far as I'm concerned, the olive branch is always extended. I was
going to ignore Bruce's insults today and leave him alone, but when he
jumped into my Tholen thread, I couldn't resist saying something back.


To my own surprise, Art seems to have turned that corner. There is much
substance to the man that neither you nor I could see before. ...
Worthwhile, interesting substance.


Yes, Art has certainly showed us a different side of himself. Perhaps
he is changing. But having a conscience might be his undoing in AUK.
He still won't give up on nightbat, already nominating him again!


Now if only we could get Bruce to be sincere ... and I leave it at
that

For that day will come when it comes. I can't engineer it. ... Nor can
I fake it. To do so would be disrespectful. Bruce is his own man. That,
I respect!


I am hoping that Bruce will sort of self-destruct. I think that his
unbridled bigotry may turn his own buddies against him.


Getting somebody to loose their temper, helps, Double-A. ... It makes
them human. An angry person is a sincere person. An angry person also
listens.

RL

Double-A

Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:


Double-A,

It riles me that other people who are not AUK'ers razz, Tholen. ...
Worse yet; some of these individuals end up becoming part of the AUK
community and start harassing other Usenet posters.

The intolerence ends up growing and spreading ...

You can see the results, here and now for yourself in alt.astronomy

This habit of harrassing posters mindlessly; as is done to Tholen;
becomes acceptable behavior.

Obviously, one cannot criticize Tholen; or anyone for that fact; vis a
vis ... how they conduct themselves on Usenet ... and expect a positive
outcome.

All that one can hope for is to 'sensitize' people; to make them aware
of certain things.

Example: ... Calling Bruce an idiot may be appropriate. It may make
people, here in alt.astronomy feel good.

... it encouage 'Bruce' to be an even bigger idiot ? grin

And perhaps THAT is the partial purpose to all of this ...

... to deliberately 'troll' him.

I was certainly aware that I managed to get both Bruce and Deco to blow
their cool in the past. At least with regard to Bruce, and maybe Deco,
too ... I trolled him down to a new *low* in vulgarity.

Why? ... to what end ?

Only so that at the end of the day, ... they would become sensitized,
THEMSLEVES to their own foolishness.



As far as I'm concerned, the olive branch is always extended. I was
going to ignore Bruce's insults today and leave him alone, but when he
jumped into my Tholen thread, I couldn't resist saying something back.


To my own surprise, Art seems to have turned that corner. There is much
substance to the man that neither you nor I could see before. ...
Worthwhile, interesting substance.


Yes, Art has certainly showed us a different side of himself. Perhaps
he is changing. But having a conscience might be his undoing in AUK.
He still won't give up on nightbat, already nominating him again!

I dunno about that, so much Double-A. There is a distinct possibility
that Art may end up changing AUK, itself. Haven't you noticed that Art
& Co. have been attracting a lot of nutjobs, recently ?

The realy vicious ones haven't shown up, yet. However, with the ever
grwing success of AUK at disrupting things, it's only a matter of time.

AUK may seem to be a bunch of unpleasant turkies but many of those
people seem to have come from NG's like sci.psychology.psychotherapy
with the long standing flame war involving Linda Gore.

See http://tinyurl.com/cvdao for an early Art Deco classic.

When it comes to rowdiness and nastiness, in the few months that I had
a glimpse at SPP, ... AUK was real tame. Things seem to have quieted
down a lot over there. ... I don't know why. Perhaps Art, Linda, Kali
or whoever would fill us in. Whatever the case, people seemed to return
to a modicum of civility. As to whether or not the group has become
burned out in the process is another issue.

Anyhow, I say all this because I am told that a similar sort of thing
happened in ASAD. ... Only it wasn't the AUK crowd involved in that
one. It involved special interest lobby groups. ... anti-shrink lobby
groups ... anti-meadz lobbyists and the like. ... Add scient*o*l*g*y
types, cretinists, etc and you can get some super nasty protracted
spamming and disrupting.

Notice that I corrupt the spelling to quash a Google search.

These flame wars involve serious hardcore kooks who are fanatics,
purposely driven by someone else's agenda. When AUK gets it's hands in
this lot, it will have found it's calling. It will have a field day.

Take Warhol and Rev'd for example ... look at the real nasty types
that lurk on their periphery. That is the direction that I expect AUK
will take in the future. Where the mess occurs is another story.

Hopefully, it won't be here.



Now if only we could get Bruce to be sincere ... and I leave it at
that

For that day will come when it comes. I can't engineer it. ... Nor can
I fake it. To do so would be disrespectful. Bruce is his own man. That,
I respect!


I am hoping that Bruce will sort of self-destruct. I think that his
unbridled bigotry may turn his own buddies against him.

Every so often I catch glimpses that Bruce has had an education.
Intuitively, I doubt that he is the dimwit that he makes himself out to
be.

Sincerely, I think that AUK is preoccupied with the wrong type of
targets.
Don't forget! It was Art, himself, who drew my attention to such.

Ever increasing awareness over issues srrounding the Formosa Rule will
motivate AUK to refine it's practice and alter it's target. Nightbat
is a nice, kind man. He doesn't ram his ideas down other people's
throats. He is concillatory, receptive and thoughtfull.

So long as nightbat doesn't blow his cool. People who take sporting pot
shots at him come off looking like the jerks that they behave as ...

I neither know nor care who 'Frederick the farted' is ... He doesn't
listen or respect. He just ridicules for the smart-ass of it. That
person wins my cold shoulder w/o the courtesy of any reconsideration. I
don't care about his redeaming qualities. As he doesn't care for others
....


Getting somebody to loose their temper, helps, Double-A. ... It makes
them human. An angry person is a sincere person. An angry person also
listens.

RL

Double-A

Perhaps if 'Frederick the farted' got really super ****ed, I might see
some humanity therein. ... Although by that time he might be too
incoherent. I see no reaon to bother thinking about him.

Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:


Double-A,

It riles me that other people who are not AUK'ers razz, Tholen. ...
Worse yet; some of these individuals end up becoming part of the AUK
community and start harassing other Usenet posters.

The intolerence ends up growing and spreading ...

You can see the results, here and now for yourself in alt.astronomy

This habit of harrassing posters mindlessly; as is done to Tholen;
becomes acceptable behavior.

Obviously, one cannot criticize Tholen; or anyone for that fact; vis a
vis ... how they conduct themselves on Usenet ... and expect a positive
outcome.

All that one can hope for is to 'sensitize' people; to make them aware
of certain things.

Example: ... Calling Bruce an idiot may be appropriate. It may make
people, here in alt.astronomy feel good.

... it encouage 'Bruce' to be an even bigger idiot ? grin

And perhaps THAT is the partial purpose to all of this ...

... to deliberately 'troll' him.

I was certainly aware that I managed to get both Bruce and Deco to blow
their cool in the past. At least with regard to Bruce, and maybe Deco,
too ... I trolled him down to a new *low* in vulgarity.

Why? ... to what end ?

Only so that at the end of the day, ... they would become sensitized,
THEMSLEVES to their own foolishness.



As far as I'm concerned, the olive branch is always extended. I was
going to ignore Bruce's insults today and leave him alone, but when he
jumped into my Tholen thread, I couldn't resist saying something back.


To my own surprise, Art seems to have turned that corner. There is much
substance to the man that neither you nor I could see before. ...
Worthwhile, interesting substance.


Yes, Art has certainly showed us a different side of himself. Perhaps
he is changing. But having a conscience might be his undoing in AUK.
He still won't give up on nightbat, already nominating him again!

I dunno about that, so much Double-A. There is a distinct possibility
that Art may end up changing AUK, itself. Haven't you noticed that Art
& Co. have been attracting a lot of nutjobs, recently ?


Just recently?


The realy vicious ones haven't shown up, yet. However, with the ever
grwing success of AUK at disrupting things, it's only a matter of time.

AUK may seem to be a bunch of unpleasant turkies but many of those
people seem to have come from NG's like sci.psychology.psychotherapy


Figures!


;l./
with the long standing flame war involving Linda Gore.

See http://tinyurl.com/cvdao for an early Art Deco classic.

When it comes to rowdiness and nastiness, in the few months that I had
a glimpse at SPP, ... AUK was real tame. Things seem to have quieted
down a lot over there. ... I don't know why. Perhaps Art, Linda, Kali
or whoever would fill us in. Whatever the case, people seemed to return
to a modicum of civility. As to whether or not the group has become
burned out in the process is another issue.

Anyhow, I say all this because I am told that a similar sort of thing
happened in ASAD. ... Only it wasn't the AUK crowd involved in that
one. It involved special interest lobby groups. ... anti-shrink lobby
groups ... anti-meadz lobbyists and the like. ... Add scient*o*l*g*y
types, cretinists, etc and you can get some super nasty protracted
spamming and disrupting.


I used to read and post to the physics groups. A real three ring
circus over there all the time! What I hated to see was when they
would tee off of some innocent student looking for help. "Uncle Al"
seemed to especially relish that kind of sadistic thing! When Spaceman
was there, he kept the pot well stirred. He showed absolutely no
respect for their PhDs, and it taught me that the argument is not
always won by the wise, but using good old fashioned dishonest debating
tactics can befuddle your opponent and win the crowd to your side!


Notice that I corrupt the spelling to quash a Google search.

These flame wars involve serious hardcore kooks who are fanatics,
purposely driven by someone else's agenda. When AUK gets it's hands in
this lot, it will have found it's calling. It will have a field day.

Take Warhol and Rev'd for example ... look at the real nasty types
that lurk on their periphery. That is the direction that I expect AUK
will take in the future. Where the mess occurs is another story.

Hopefully, it won't be here.



Now if only we could get Bruce to be sincere ... and I leave it at
that

For that day will come when it comes. I can't engineer it. ... Nor can
I fake it. To do so would be disrespectful. Bruce is his own man. That,
I respect!


I am hoping that Bruce will sort of self-destruct. I think that his
unbridled bigotry may turn his own buddies against him.

Every so often I catch glimpses that Bruce has had an education.
Intuitively, I doubt that he is the dimwit that he makes himself out to
be.


Then he must work hard on his performance!


Sincerely, I think that AUK is preoccupied with the wrong type of
targets.
Don't forget! It was Art, himself, who drew my attention to such.

Ever increasing awareness over issues srrounding the Formosa Rule will
motivate AUK to refine it's practice and alter it's target. Nightbat
is a nice, kind man. He doesn't ram his ideas down other people's
throats. He is concillatory, receptive and thoughtfull.

So long as nightbat doesn't blow his cool. People who take sporting pot
shots at him come off looking like the jerks that they behave as ...


Yes, I have seen so many kooks on Usenet who are both kooky and real
mean spirited jerks. Wouldn't you prefer to see some real bad ass
getting an award rather than a basicly nice guy like the nightbat?

(Are you reading this Art?)

I could certainly supply a list of bad ass crank scientists for the
VVFWSA.

Why so focus on alt.astronomy?


I neither know nor care who 'Frederick the farted' is ... He doesn't
listen or respect. He just ridicules for the smart-ass of it. That
person wins my cold shoulder w/o the courtesy of any reconsideration. I
don't care about his redeaming qualities. As he doesn't care for others
...


Getting somebody to loose their temper, helps, Double-A. ... It makes
them human. An angry person is a sincere person. An angry person also
listens.

RL

Double-A

Perhaps if 'Frederick the farted' got really super ****ed, I might see
some humanity therein. ... Although by that time he might be too
incoherent. I see no reaon to bother thinking about him.


They say Fred is the bot of Kadaitcha Man. But who is Kadaitcha Man?

Double-A

Double-Anus wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:


Double-A,

It riles me that other people who are not AUK'ers razz, Tholen. ...
Worse yet; some of these individuals end up becoming part of the AUK
community and start harassing other Usenet posters.

The intolerence ends up growing and spreading ...

You can see the results, here and now for yourself in alt.astronomy

This habit of harrassing posters mindlessly; as is done to Tholen;
becomes acceptable behavior.

Obviously, one cannot criticize Tholen; or anyone for that fact; vis a
vis ... how they conduct themselves on Usenet ... and expect a positive
outcome.

All that one can hope for is to 'sensitize' people; to make them aware
of certain things.

Example: ... Calling Bruce an idiot may be appropriate. It may make
people, here in alt.astronomy feel good.

... it encouage 'Bruce' to be an even bigger idiot ? grin

And perhaps THAT is the partial purpose to all of this ...

... to deliberately 'troll' him.

I was certainly aware that I managed to get both Bruce and Deco to blow
their cool in the past. At least with regard to Bruce, and maybe Deco,
too ... I trolled him down to a new *low* in vulgarity.

Why? ... to what end ?

Only so that at the end of the day, ... they would become sensitized,
THEMSLEVES to their own foolishness.



As far as I'm concerned, the olive branch is always extended. I was
going to ignore Bruce's insults today and leave him alone, but when he
jumped into my Tholen thread, I couldn't resist saying something back.

Because you love to talk out of both sides of your mouth.

To my own surprise, Art seems to have turned that corner. There is much
substance to the man that neither you nor I could see before. ...
Worthwhile, interesting substance.


Yes, Art has certainly showed us a different side of himself. Perhaps
he is changing. But having a conscience might be his undoing in AUK.
He still won't give up on nightbat, already nominating him again!

You'll be next, kook.

Now if only we could get Bruce to be sincere ... and I leave it at
that

For that day will come when it comes. I can't engineer it. ... Nor can
I fake it. To do so would be disrespectful. Bruce is his own man. That,
I respect!


I am hoping that Bruce will sort of self-destruct. I think that his
unbridled bigotry may turn his own buddies against him.

Not a snowflake's chance of that.

Getting somebody to loose their temper, helps, Double-A. ... It makes
them human. An angry person is a sincere person. An angry person also
listens.

RL

Double-Anus

Say, when you fart, do you sound twice as loud?

Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
[posting trimmed to alt.astronomy]

[snip]

I used to read and post to the physics groups. A real three ring
circus over there all the time! What I hated to see was when they
would tee off of some innocent student looking for help. "Uncle Al"
seemed to especially relish that kind of sadistic thing! When Spaceman
was there, he kept the pot well stirred. He showed absolutely no
respect for their PhDs, and it taught me that the argument is not
always won by the wise, but using good old fashioned dishonest debating
tactics can befuddle your opponent and win the crowd to your side!


Got news for you Double-A ...

' good old fashioned dishonest debating
tactics can befuddle your opponent and win the crowd to your side! '

... works in science too !!!!

Logical reasoning is mostly really, really convincing "wishfull
thinking".

It is far from being bullet proof, notwithstanding it's reputation to
be that way! ... a kooky thing to say, eh?

Actually, there are a lot of examples wherein rational discourse starts
to waver and go soft ...

For example, the 'Monty Hall' problem ...

It's "Let's make a Deal" ... and you have to choose the grand prize
behind one of 3 curtains.

After you makes 'yer choice, Monty offers to show you a rubber chicken
behind one of the curtains that you didn't choose. For $50, you can
change your mind as to which curtain you selected.

Most people stick with the choice that they made at the outset. They
save the $50 ...

RL

Rising Loonie wrote:
Double-A wrote:
Raving Loonie wrote:
[posting trimmed to alt.astronomy]

[snip]

I used to read and post to the physics groups. A real three ring
circus over there all the time! What I hated to see was when they
would tee off of some innocent student looking for help. "Uncle Al"
seemed to especially relish that kind of sadistic thing! When Spaceman
was there, he kept the pot well stirred. He showed absolutely no
respect for their PhDs, and it taught me that the argument is not
always won by the wise, but using good old fashioned dishonest debating
tactics can befuddle your opponent and win the crowd to your side!


Got news for you Double-A ...

' good old fashioned dishonest debating
tactics can befuddle your opponent and win the crowd to your side! '

... works in science too !!!!

Logical reasoning is mostly really, really convincing "wishfull
thinking".

It is far from being bullet proof, notwithstanding it's reputation to
be that way! ... a kooky thing to say, eh?

Actually, there are a lot of examples wherein rational discourse starts
to waver and go soft ...

For example, the 'Monty Hall' problem ...

It's "Let's make a Deal" ... and you have to choose the grand prize
behind one of 3 curtains.

After you makes 'yer choice, Monty offers to show you a rubber chicken
behind one of the curtains that you didn't choose. For $50, you can
change your mind as to which curtain you selected.

Most people stick with the choice that they made at the outset. They
save the $50 ...

RL


Don't you love how often Einstein's name is invoked nowadays? Every
time new experimental evidence or observations are presented in
physics, they are touted a proof of something Einstein said, as though
that puts an official stamp of approval on it. Sort of a back handed
appeal to authority.

It is especially ironic when they insist that black holes are predicted
by Einstein's relativity, when Einstein himself insisted that their
existence was extremely improbable!

Double-A