Back to the Moon on what? Saturn V, Magnum, Ares launcher, Shuttle Z

So what will it be. Do we build new Saturn Vs, Magnum rockets, Ares launchers,
or Shuttle Zs?

TKalbfus wrote:
So what will it be. Do we build new Saturn Vs, Magnum rockets, Ares launchers,
or Shuttle Zs?


None of the above.

A launcher in the 25,000kg payload to LEO and then design
around Earth Orbit Rendevous. Build in volume purchasing
with something that has multiple applications besides the
single mission. The key here is leveragable infrastucture.

On 2003-12-06, TKalbfus wrote:

So what will it be. Do we build new Saturn Vs, Magnum rockets, Ares launchers,
or Shuttle Zs?

Assuming we go, I think its likely to be a variant of the Delta-IV Heavy.

Saturn V has the problem of reopening the assembly lines, not to mention
the expertise and experience that has been lost along the way. It would
be like starting again from scratch.

Magnum, and Ares are little more than paper rockets (OK, they are a
little more, but not much imho)

By the time Lunar missions happen (again assuming they do), there is a
strong possibility Shuttle Hardware won't be with us. OSP will launch
on the EELV platform, and its _possible_ that EELV (or variant) may get
used for Assured (Or is it Alternative now?) Access to Space.

[Agreed, its also possible that Shuttle will be used for AAS, unmanned,
thus negating my argument about Shuttle Hardware...]

The Delta IV design concept, on the other hand, seems to have at least
some scope for larger variants. Heavy is scheduled to fly May next
year, and there have been many discussions of potential "Super|Mega"
Heavy variants in here...


All the Best

Iain

On 06 Dec 2003 20:51:51 GMT, in a place far, far away,
(TKalbfus) made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

So what will it be. Do we build new Saturn Vs, Magnum rockets, Ares launchers,
or Shuttle Zs?

None of the above would be fine with me.

--
simberg.interglobal.org * 310 372-7963 (CA) 307 739-1296 (Jackson Hole)
interglobal space lines * 307 733-1715 (Fax) http://www.interglobal.org

"Extraordinary launch vehicles require extraordinary markets..."
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On 06 Dec 2003 20:51:51 GMT, (TKalbfus) wrote:

So what will it be. Do we build new Saturn Vs, Magnum rockets, Ares launchers,
or Shuttle Zs?

There's no need for such a large booster, at least not for lunar
missions.

Most of the weight lofted into orbit for Apollo was propellant, which
can fairly easily be launched by a number of smaller launch vehicles,
particularly if storable propellants are chosen for the mission.

I suspect we'll see a combination of existing or derivative launch
vehicles used for the mission, assuming its approved. Probably an
EELV-Heavy (or Super Heavy) to launch the lunar spacecraft and a
second EELV to launch the OSP.

The propellant delivery mission could be turned completely over to
private industry, fostering true RLV development. If that falls apart,
the fallback option would be EELV or Shuttle-C in Low Value Cargo
mode.

Brian

"Iain Young" wrote in message
...
On 2003-12-06, TKalbfus wrote:

So what will it be. Do we build new Saturn Vs, Magnum rockets, Ares
launchers,
or Shuttle Zs?

Assuming we go, I think its likely to be a variant of the Delta-IV Heavy.

Saturn V has the problem of reopening the assembly lines, not to mention
the expertise and experience that has been lost along the way. It would
be like starting again from scratch.

Not to mention the first stage was built where the ETs are currently built.



Magnum, and Ares are little more than paper rockets (OK, they are a
little more, but not much imho)

By the time Lunar missions happen (again assuming they do), there is a
strong possibility Shuttle Hardware won't be with us. OSP will launch
on the EELV platform, and its _possible_ that EELV (or variant) may get
used for Assured (Or is it Alternative now?) Access to Space.

[Agreed, its also possible that Shuttle will be used for AAS, unmanned,
thus negating my argument about Shuttle Hardware...]

The Delta IV design concept, on the other hand, seems to have at least
some scope for larger variants. Heavy is scheduled to fly May next
year, and there have been many discussions of potential "Super|Mega"
Heavy variants in here...


All the Best

Iain

None of the above.

A launcher in the 25,000kg payload to LEO and then design
around Earth Orbit Rendevous.

Or how about standing up 4 of these launchers side by side on the launch pad
and lash them together so they can lift a 100 tone payload to orbit?

Earth orbit rendevous means lingering in orbit for a while exposed to space
junk while your waiting to get the other pieces up. You have to put pieces A,
B, C, and D together. What if there is something wrong with piece B, that only
becomes apparent once it reaches orbit? A, C, and D are just fine, so they wait
in orbit, getting exposed to more space junk while a replacement for be is
assembled and another launcher is built to launch it. The comes the process of
assembly. Send the astroworkers into orbit, these people aren't going to the
moon, their task is to assemble the moonship. They better have brought all the
tools their going to need. The process needs to be carefully choriographed in
swimming pools with mockups. The Lunar geologists await on Earth while the
mission of assemble goes on. The mission in this case begins with assembly
rather than a launch.

Tom

How about a nuclear upper stage?, this would reduce the propellant requirement.
More mass can then be devoted to the lander.

Tom

TKalbfus wrote:

So what will it be. Do we build new Saturn Vs, Magnum rockets, Ares launchers,
or Shuttle Zs?

What we have available today or the near term.

TKalbfus wrote:

None of the above.

A launcher in the 25,000kg payload to LEO and then design
around Earth Orbit Rendevous.

Or how about standing up 4 of these launchers side by side on the launch pad
and lash them together so they can lift a 100 tone payload to orbit?

All this is not going to happen. What is needed is a completely new
concept to get to the Moon.