Binocular ownership figures? Relevant to 4th amendment

Hi, I have a question about the history of binoculars, and would really
appreciate your help. I am in law school and am researching the use of
binoculars in conjunction with a U.S. 4th amendment case. A recent case
in particular states that there is no search (hence no 4th amendment
violation) if the surveillance equipment used is in common public use.
An older case (this one from the 1970's) says that binoculars are not
widely in public use and are "sophisticated surveillance equipment."

My tenative argument is that while in the 1970's, binoculars may not
have been in wide public usage, probably due to the fact that they
would have been more expensive, in the present they are commonly used
by the public, and that is supported by the fact that they are now less
expensive.

So, I guess what I'm asking is - is my argument correct, and do you
have any figures on ownership of binoculars (70's vs. present) and
perhaps general price comparisons for a good set of binoculars (70's
vs. present).

Thanks very much for your time,
Robert

Well I imagine that the definition of common public use is the real
question here. I mean certainly in the 1970s there were millions of
binoculars in the hands of private citizens for all sorts of uses in
hunting, bird-watching, boating as well as amateur astronomy. Now
probably in all of these activities there are some people who do not
use binoculars, but a fair number of people do.

Regarding the difference in prices between binoculars then compared to
now? Well I would base it off a basic pair of binoculars. The Good
binoculars now are so much better than the Binoculars of 30 years ago
that the difference is hard to easily quantify.

--
Bill

An older case (this one from the 1970's) says that binoculars are not
widely in public use and are "sophisticated surveillance equipment."


I've always loved binoculars. Now i know why! ;-)

-Florian

I've always loved binoculars. Now i know why! ;-)

-Florian




Same here. But I never cared much for lawyers..............

John Harper AE5X
Portable QRP: http://www.ae5x.com

To answer your question, no I don't have figures.
But binoculars were sold in very large quantities during the 1970s, and
were in wide public use, by any standard. Japanese production was in
full gear by then.

They are more widely used now, I am sure, partly because prices for the
low end models are much less now than they were back in the 70s, in
absolute dollar figures & in relative-to-income terms.

It also seems obvious to me that you can 'search' and violate the terms
of the fourth amendment using commonly available materials, and that
this is not a legitimate means of establishing violations. Sounds like
some high priced lawyer (no offense) earned his pay receiving that
judgement in favor of some big client. Maybe this 1970s case referred to
special binoculars, or high power tripod mounted binoculars. --Peter

wrote in
ups.com:

Hi, I have a question about the history of binoculars, and would
really appreciate your help. I am in law school and am researching
the use of binoculars in conjunction with a U.S. 4th amendment case. A
recent case in particular states that there is no search (hence no 4th
amendment violation) if the surveillance equipment used is in common
public use. An older case (this one from the 1970's) says that
binoculars are not widely in public use and are "sophisticated
surveillance equipment."

My tenative argument is that while in the 1970's, binoculars may not
have been in wide public usage, probably due to the fact that they
would have been more expensive, in the present they are commonly used
by the public, and that is supported by the fact that they are now
less expensive.

So, I guess what I'm asking is - is my argument correct, and do you
have any figures on ownership of binoculars (70's vs. present) and
perhaps general price comparisons for a good set of binoculars (70's
vs. present).

Thanks very much for your time,
Robert




--
=============================================
Peter Abrahams telscope.at.europa.dot.com
The history of the telescope and the binocular:
http://home.europa.com/~telscope/binotele.htm

On 18 Jan 2005 10:07:03 -0800, wrote:

Hi, I have a question about the history of binoculars, and would really
appreciate your help. I am in law school and am researching the use of
binoculars in conjunction with a U.S. 4th amendment case. A recent case
in particular states that there is no search (hence no 4th amendment
violation) if the surveillance equipment used is in common public use.
An older case (this one from the 1970's) says that binoculars are not
widely in public use and are "sophisticated surveillance equipment."

My tenative argument is that while in the 1970's, binoculars may not
have been in wide public usage, probably due to the fact that they
would have been more expensive, in the present they are commonly used
by the public, and that is supported by the fact that they are now less
expensive.

So, I guess what I'm asking is - is my argument correct, and do you
have any figures on ownership of binoculars (70's vs. present) and
perhaps general price comparisons for a good set of binoculars (70's
vs. present).

I remember taking my parents' binoculars to sporting events back in
the '70's when I was a kid, and didn't think there was anything
particularly exotic or unusual about having a pair at the time. And
this was a basic middle-class, middle-America milieu.

Nick

--
Nick Theodorakis

contact form:
http://theodorakis.net/contact.html

Binos are more common today, but they were hardly "sophisticated" in the
70's.

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon?
Try http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

Are you interested in understanding optics?
Try http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATM_Optics_Software/

************************************


"Florian" wrote in message
...
An older case (this one from the 1970's) says that binoculars are not
widely in public use and are "sophisticated surveillance equipment."


I've always loved binoculars. Now i know why! ;-)

-Florian

How many centuries have binoculars been used to
view plays or Operas?

What 4 year old doesn’t have a pair of Yellow and
Pink Fisher Price binoculars?

Have you seen the $6 binoculars sold in drugstores?

Thirty years ago I paid $185 for good Zess binoculars.
My 14 year old daughter has a pair of 2004 $30
WalMart binoculars! That just blows the old Zess’s
completely away!

NO Ghosting, No flare just a bit of pin cushioning…

Clear Skies, Roger ?:^)

wrote:
An older case (this one from the 1970's) says that binoculars are not
widely in public use and are "sophisticated surveillance equipment."

There are binoculars and then there are binoculars. What can be seen in
a consumer grade 10x50 binocular, certainly an inexpensive common
binocular in the 1950s through the 1970s, is quite different from
30x100s available in the 1970s or even a pair of 100mm navy spotting
binoculars from the 1940s. It would helpful to have the case citation
(and a link to the case in Findlaw) so we can judge what size and type
of binocular were being considered.

On first impression, I would say that either in the 1970s or today, any
pair of binoculars mounted on a tripod would be considered infrequent
among the general public, but common among amateur astronomers. When
hand-held, the user is limited to low-magnification viewing due to the
"bouncing" of the hand-held image. Such binoculars (in the 8x35 to
10x50 class) present little risk to bystander's privacy.

But when mounted on a steady tripod, the viewer can use higher
magnification binoculars because the image is not bouncing around.
Bystander's privacy can be invaded from a distance.

Similarly, any small inexpensive telescope mounted on a tripod,
available either today or in the 1970s, can be used at much higher
magnifications than any binocular. Bystander's privacy is at a greater
risk when people abuse commonly available, inexpensive telescopes for
such a socially irresponsible form of terrestrial viewing.

In conclusion, any small inexpensive telescope of the 1970s could be
used to "surveil" persons to degree outstripping an expensive pair of
binoculars of the same era. It is a matter of magnification; not the
form of the telescope, e.g. monocular or binocular.

As to historical prices, reference copies of _Sky & Telescope_ are
available at your local library and could be used to reconstruct price
trends normalized to the current value of money.
Peace - Canopus56

??? A law student named "countchocula"?

??? A law student named "countchocula"?

You obviously missed the: "for president" in his address.
There's a precedent in there somewhere! ;-)

Chris.B